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Should the Tengu be nerfed?

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2015-08-10 21:51:02 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about some real "tryhard" shield boosting setup?

Now we're getting somewhere.
👍
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#122 - 2015-08-10 22:45:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about some real "tryhard" shield boosting setup?

Now we're getting somewhere.
👍


As long as "somewhere" mean z killboard then yes.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#123 - 2015-08-12 21:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
baltec1 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


Oh rubbish, a Cerberus fleet will trivially out-range and out-speed Tengus, especially if they have that "battleship tank".


Firstly shield tanks don't slow you down and secondly, locking range of both the tengu and the cerb have a 1km difference.


Shouldn't you know what you're talking about before putting this much energy into an argument?

I said the Cerb will outrange the Tengu. it does. That 50% flight time bonus is not available to the Tengu and gives the Cerb an unsassailable range advantage. A Cerb has 141Km range with T1 missiles out of the gate, and Info Warfare Links are neither unusual nor unreasonable to assume in this day and age of CN Mindlinks, so lock range at 177km isn't an issue either.

Our cerb fleet fit shoots to 160km and moves at a sustained 2.4k with no overheating. Post your "BS EHP" MWD Tengu equivalent or admit that the BS in "BS EHP" stands for "bullshit".

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#124 - 2015-08-12 21:39:26 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


Oh rubbish, a Cerberus fleet will trivially out-range and out-speed Tengus, especially if they have that "battleship tank".


Firstly shield tanks don't slow you down and secondly, locking range of both the tengu and the cerb have a 1km difference.


Shouldn't you know what you're talking about before putting this much energy into an argument?

I said the Cerb will outrange the Tengu. it does. That 50% flight time bonus is not available to the Tengu and gives the Cerb an unsassailable range advantage. A Cerb has 141Km range with T1 missiles out of the gate, and Info Warfare Links are neither unusual nor unreasonable to assume in this day and age of CN Mindlinks, so lock range at 177km isn't an issue either.

Our cerb fleet fit shoots to 160km and moves at a sustained 2.4k with no overheating. Post your "BS EHP" MWD Tengu equivalent or admit that the BS in "BS EHP" stands for "bullshit".



Baltec's problems is that he is confusing configurable with configured.

You see, in his "fit" he has a Covert Ops/Nullified/Neut fit that has lasers in the highs and Neuts and a Cloak, magically does MWD speeds with an AB and has the EHP of a BS.

Problem is, for every neut he fits he is losing DPS from the turret, to even be able to fit a buffer tank he would have to use a power subsection, thus losing another turret and high slot, or he forgoes the tank for the speed he claims he can get. All the while he says "Cap Stable" and "Cap Booster" in two different posts.

His fit doesn't work because at the end of the day you have a sub 500m/s Legion with 120dps at no range and the neuting power half that of a Pilgrim or Curse.

I suspect he is doing the same kind of fit manipulation on his Tengu EFT warrior Plus fit too.

See, the T3's CAN do all these things, but they CAN'T do ALL these things at once.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#125 - 2015-08-12 22:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
I know, his talking points are obvious rubbish to anyone who actually uses T2 and t3 cruisers - I especially liked the bit where he outright stated that T3s are better reppers than Logis.

Because THEORETICAL EHP is ALL THAT COUNTS!!!!1111BBQeleven

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#126 - 2015-08-12 22:03:59 UTC
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaltec

Post your fits, Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaltec!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#127 - 2015-08-12 22:30:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaltec

Post your fits, Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaltec!



Baltec's Ego wrote:
I am looking at a fit for a Legion right now that has a bazillion EHP and neuts better than a Baaaaaaahl but I can't show you or anyone else cuz, reasons


Or the best

Baltec's Ego wrote:
T3 cruisers have destroyed this game because no one has ever undocked or used or died in any other cruiser, battlecruiser or battleship hull since 1997


POST YOUR FITS!

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Josef Djugashvilis
#128 - 2015-08-13 07:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
CCP do seem to suffer from the tall poppy syndrome...

This is not a signature.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#129 - 2015-08-13 09:22:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Loneball wrote:
Nerf all T3's
Should only be 10% stronger than a T2, with T2 being only 15% stronger than a T1.

Exponential power increases surrounding similar sized hulls = LoL WTZ


They need to be less powerful than t2 cruisers otherwise what's the point in t2 cruisers?


t3 are derived from superior alien tech and in a logical line t1-t2-t3...they might as well be more powerfull than t2.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2015-08-13 09:24:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about some real "tryhard" shield boosting setup?

Now we're getting somewhere.
👍

That fit must be worth a supercap...did not look it up though.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Avvy
Doomheim
#131 - 2015-08-13 11:26:32 UTC
Yes


No need for t3's in-game, just need more t2's.

By just keep adding tiers it'll just make balancing harder. Unless you just balance the tiers rather than balance across the tiers, but that's not a good way to go.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2015-08-13 12:22:04 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Yes


No need for t3's in-game, just need more t2's.

By just keep adding tiers it'll just make balancing harder. Unless you just balance the tiers rather than balance across the tiers, but that's not a good way to go.


why do we not need t3's? they serve a purpose of being flexible and can become pretty handy for doing stuff in nullsec and wormholes

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Avvy
Doomheim
#133 - 2015-08-13 12:23:28 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Yes


No need for t3's in-game, just need more t2's.

By just keep adding tiers it'll just make balancing harder. Unless you just balance the tiers rather than balance across the tiers, but that's not a good way to go.


why do we not need t3's? they serve a purpose of being flexible and can become pretty handy for doing stuff in nullsec and wormholes



So they couldn't have made a t2 that had flexibility?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2015-08-13 12:28:08 UTC
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2015-08-13 12:28:22 UTC
they already have t2 hacs, recons etc, the t3 does stuff that nothing else can do, the ability to change its role without having to dock up so it has many different roles, its really useful and doesnt matter adding any new ship makes balancing harder

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#136 - 2015-08-13 12:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Did, did he just say a Pilgrim beats a Stratios, and try to say that a Legion doesn't? Did I seriously just read that?



I will forgive you guys because you aren't wormholers... but you should see the videos us real pvpers post, the Strat vs Tengu, Strat vs Drake, Strat vs Brutix and vexor...

Then you have the whole, Strat can run away any time it wants because you are slow boating in your Legion fit for Baltecs doom, while shooting at it's toughest resists on an already good buffer hull.

Do me a favor, and tell me which C-level of which hole type you're fighting in, so I can do a fair comparison. I am sure we both remember that hilarious Legion setup that used Rapid Lights to play to every single strength of a Wolf-Rayet.

Not gonna lie. When No-Ho took on the RLML Legions of the Goons in that hole...We got violated...Absolutely violated...Lol


Avvy wrote:
Yes


No need for t3's in-game, just need more t2's.

By just keep adding tiers it'll just make balancing harder. Unless you just balance the tiers rather than balance across the tiers, but that's not a good way to go.

Wormholes. T3's are the norm in wormhole space. Fleets of HAM and Neut Legions, ECMgus, Protes for points and Bhaals. With Aug / Triage and Nestor refit / reps ...


Malcanis wrote:
Shouldn't you know what you're talking about before putting this much energy into an argument?

I said the Cerb will outrange the Tengu. it does. That 50% flight time bonus is not available to the Tengu and gives the Cerb an unsassailable range advantage. A Cerb has 141Km range with T1 missiles out of the gate, and Info Warfare Links are neither unusual nor unreasonable to assume in this day and age of CN Mindlinks, so lock range at 177km isn't an issue either.

Our cerb fleet fit shoots to 160km and moves at a sustained 2.4k with no overheating. Post your "BS EHP" MWD Tengu equivalent or admit that the BS in "BS EHP" stands for "bullshit".

Yep this is true, as someone who mainly flies Tengus and Cerbs, I can tell you that my Cerb drastically out-ranges and out-speeds my Tengu.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#137 - 2015-08-13 12:51:18 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
[Cerberus, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Power Diagnostic System II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x3


There... cheaper, longer range, more dps and speed and cap stable and I don't waste 4.5days training back whatever Bob takes from me when I get whelped

What did you want to nerf again?


[Tengu, Tengu HML 6guns t2 fit]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
10MN Afterburner II
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II

Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

506 dps with CN kinetic. 593dps with fury kinetic. Also shoot out to 81km with fury/108km with navy ammo when loading the MGC with range, allowing you to outrange most targets. This is without implants btw, add another 50/75 dps for two relevant 5% missile implants. The whole fit costs 490mil.

It's true that a cerb is more cost effective (up to the reasonable limitation of death) at which point the tengu can't be surpassed for medium classed missile ships.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#138 - 2015-08-13 13:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Market McSelling Alt
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
[Cerberus, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Power Diagnostic System II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x3


There... cheaper, longer range, more dps and speed and cap stable and I don't waste 4.5days training back whatever Bob takes from me when I get whelped

What did you want to nerf again?


[Tengu, Tengu HML 6guns t2 fit]

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field
10MN Afterburner II
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II

Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

506 dps with CN kinetic. 593dps with fury kinetic. Also shoot out to 81km with fury/108km with navy ammo when loading the MGC with range, allowing you to outrange most targets. This is without implants btw, add another 50/75 dps for two relevant 5% missile implants. The whole fit costs 490mil.

It's true that a cerb is more cost effective (up to the reasonable limitation of death) at which point the tengu can't be surpassed for medium classed missile ships.



Your fit isnt even close to cap stable and has a fraction of the tank the Cerb does.

[Cerberus, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Pith X-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x3


There is a better tank, cap stable, better range and better damage. Also if you implant yourself it helps the cerb too. Implants don't just help the Tengu.

So no, Cerb is still better than your fit. Worried about cost, drop the CN BCS and the cost drops to below 450mil and the DPS is now the same as the Tengu, but with better range and speed.

Oh and no skill loss upon death.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2015-08-13 13:17:49 UTC
but can a cerberus be as slippery as pete? Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#140 - 2015-08-13 13:24:15 UTC
So I shoot your EM hole and you die. You have 7.9k ehp against EM and rep 234hp/s. It would take about 45seconds for my tengu to kill your ship.

Tengu has 31k ehp, reps 590something throughout its cap life and does the same dps with only navy mjolnir.

Now you could argue that I'd have to guess you have an EM hole but here's the trick sensei - I know cerbs very well. Flown them for a long time. They don't have potentially 7 mids like some tengu fits. Tanks on a cerb tend to come in only 3 flavours.