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Thanks CCP, Elite Dangerous, and DLC
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Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
#61 - 2015-08-13 01:07:37 UTC
I dont regret the money i spent on eve, however I regret much of the skillpoints I spent in some areas that CCP have broke.
And I dont regret the money I´ve spend because I get fun while playing the game, but somewhere in time I become more and more unconfortable with the game, too many changes, then changes again and more changes on what they have changed before, until I thinking to myself that I was not having the fun I had before.

Eve is now reaching to an dark era and its not fun anymore, maybe dev´s can turn this black pages, maybe not, we´ll see in a near future if it will survive to this purge, I hope so and maybe I can someday get fun in Eve again...
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#62 - 2015-08-13 01:31:39 UTC
Pah Cova wrote:
I dont regret the money i spent on eve, however I regret much of the skillpoints I spent in some areas that CCP have broke.
And I dont regret the money I´ve spend because I get fun while playing the game, but somewhere in time I become more and more unconfortable with the game, too many changes, then changes again and more changes on what they have changed before, until I thinking to myself that I was not having the fun I had before.

Eve is now reaching to an dark era and its not fun anymore, maybe dev´s can turn this black pages, maybe not, we´ll see in a near future if it will survive to this purge, I hope so and maybe I can someday get fun in Eve again...


Sounds more like it's just getting old for you. Granted, I get where you are coming from. You make a choice today that is based off of what is true today. Then, later on down the road, things are different and that same choice made today would have been an error in judgement. But, you can't go back on it and change your mind just cause the game changes its mind. Sucks, but consider how much more the game would suck if it remained Eve from 2003 even today, in midway through 2015. Consider how much quicker it would get old. Yeah, agreed, CCP has made some questionable design decisions in the past and likely will continue to do so, but thinking the game would fair better if no changes came about from now until the end of time is bluntly put foolish and arrogant. In the twelve plus years Eve has been around, it's painfully easy to imagine people have in fact played it long enough to burn themselves out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing with you. Leaving Eve, even temp hiatus, is understandable given that nature and direction of changes in Eve's history. Just don't leave simply on account that the game does change at all.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#63 - 2015-08-13 03:10:16 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Murkar Omaristos wrote:

So I wanted to say thanks CCP for not being knobheads like the rest of the industry, and not forcing DLC down our throats. We may be salty, but we appreciate you guys for not following the status quo :)


No instead you're paying 10 pounds a month per account but let's just forget it because its divided into tiny pieces so surely it magically makes the total sum per year less important.

Elite isn't actually charging for a DLC, its charging for a year worth of updates at 3,33 pounds a month. Meanwhile EVE charges us triple that amount.

Elite has its flaws, but at least they are trying to make the experience enjoyable and FUN.

Hell, if you look at the way powerplay works, its way better than the Aegis Sov. And yes, it could totally be transposed to EVE.



What's fun for you might not be fun for someone else.


He did say trying you know. And it's a valid point.

I'm fairly certain "fun" is a banned word at CCP. Word has it Jimmy the maintenance boy slipped up when he was on the phone with his girlfriend and Hilmar had his legs broken.

True story. We know because it came straight from the water cooler.

The same water cooler that used to be refilled by Jimmy, before his legs were broken.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-08-13 03:15:52 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
Imma post right now just to say thank you to CCP. I downloaded Elite Dangerous recently, thinking it would be a good alternative game to play for when I'm bored of EVE. A lot of Null Sec people (including me) been really salty since Fozzie Sov and that certainly played a role. However - I downloaded elite thinking it would be awesome - it was advertised to eventually include things like planetary landing, atmospehric flight, etc. - which is awesome.

All those cool things (the reason I bought the game) were recently announced as DLC for the low price of £39.99, or a pass for all future expansions for ******* £130.00.

So I wanted to say thanks CCP for not being knobheads like the rest of the industry, and not forcing DLC down our throats. We may be salty, but we appreciate you guys for not following the status quo :)



Considering ED doesn't have a monthly subscription, I'd say you're looking at it the entirely wrong way.

They don't owe you content, therefore you're getting quite a good deal with them.

CCP on the other hand, charges a monthly subscription and has barely any content in their updates to speak of.


At the end of the year, how much will you have paid to CCP for that lack of content you've been receiving? Hmmmm...


CCP charge a monthly subscription for access to the servers to play the game. The updates are free. While we're comparing content though, I do laugh a little when someone makes like EVE has less than Elite in any way shape or form.


In terms of content totality, its hard to claim that.

In terms of content per update, it isn't..

And if you think CCP is retaining customers based on server access, you are mistaken. They might be charging for that on paper, but it's not what's being sold. If EVE never received another update again you would see player numbers plummet.

Similar to how the recent updates now have no content that actually matters to anyone, and as a result those numbers have gone down. Funny how that works, eh?


Content per update is irrelevant considering the CCP do updates every 6 weeks now. Add all that content together annually and, well.... it makes a difference. And I'm sure you're right, I'm sure if CCP stopped expanding EVE, a lot of entitled children would quit and demand something else for free instead. That's fine, the game would be a better game without them.

For the record, I've enjoyed all the content in recent updates. Doesn't actually matter to anyone does it? Better learn how to cite sources before blurting out stupid things like that.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#65 - 2015-08-13 03:29:29 UTC
By everyone, I am sure you realized I meant everyone who mattered. The people who matter in the strictest business sense being the vast majority who have stopped playing, combined with the ones who simply refuse to start as they greatly outnumber the ones who still are, in fact, currently playing.

I am, however, sorry to hear about your loss of standards. I am sure it was painful.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#66 - 2015-08-13 03:43:48 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
no DLC, but monthly sub instead... I've spent more than 130 on EVE.

^^^^

E:D also has 95% ship & module insurance coverage, free, and it never expires. I'm afraid to figure out how much PLEX I have bought with $'s to feed my pvp over the years...

I prefer their model.

F

Would you like to know more?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#67 - 2015-08-13 04:09:54 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
All those cool things (the reason I bought the game) were recently announced as DLC for the low price of £39.99, or a pass for all future expansions for ******* £130.00.


Eve Online sub = 15 money/month
3 accounts, 45 money/month
6 years = 72 months
72 months x 45 money = 3240 money

In theory anyways :D


plus fanfest, plus special edition books, plus clothing, plus collector's edition. I probably spent $1000 on eve last year alone. The fanfest bit especially makes me wish I lived in Europe, much cheaper to fly to Iceland from London than from the US. Looks like a flight from NYC costs the same as what I paid for flight and a hostel last time (not counting travel to NYC) Sad

although with my 3 accounts I spend $38.95/month as I have them set on 3 month plans, so save a little at least P

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#68 - 2015-08-13 06:49:37 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Murkar Omaristos wrote:

So I wanted to say thanks CCP for not being knobheads like the rest of the industry, and not forcing DLC down our throats. We may be salty, but we appreciate you guys for not following the status quo :)


No instead you're paying 10 pounds a month per account but let's just forget it because its divided into tiny pieces so surely it magically makes the total sum per year less important.

Elite isn't actually charging for a DLC, its charging for a year worth of updates at 3,33 pounds a month. Meanwhile EVE charges us triple that amount.

Elite has its flaws, but at least they are trying to make the experience enjoyable and FUN.

Hell, if you look at the way powerplay works, its way better than the Aegis Sov. And yes, it could totally be transposed to EVE.



What's fun for you might not be fun for someone else.


He did say trying you know. And it's a valid point.

I'm fairly certain "fun" is a banned word at CCP. Word has it Jimmy the maintenance boy slipped up when he was on the phone with his girlfriend and Hilmar had his legs broken.

True story. We know because it came straight from the water cooler.

The same water cooler that used to be refilled by Jimmy, before his legs were broken.


Well, often I see EVE as a challenging game, since it continuously challenges the player to dare and have any fun with it... Lol

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2015-08-13 08:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
[E:D also has 95% ship & module insurance coverage, free, and it never expires. I'm afraid to figure out how much PLEX I have bought with $'s to feed my pvp over the years...

I prefer their model.

F

Yeah, those guys totally used your PLEX pieces or ISK you've exchanged it for directly to assemble ship replacement for you.

"Their" model doesn't have industry.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#70 - 2015-08-13 08:44:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
At the rate we're going, SC will be more of a game than EVE in 2-3 years.

So EVE will be dead in 1 year so it'll have time to be buried and rot into some kind of undead anti-game?

Maybe not 1 year, but only an idiot would deny that EVE isn't exactly healthy right now.
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#71 - 2015-08-13 15:22:29 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


That's your fault to not inform yourself. E:D never made a secret that planetary landing and avatar gameplay would be PAID EXPANSIONS, and that's why they offered a unlimited pass with their beta packages. vºv


While you may be correct that I was ill-informed, DLC is spaceaids.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#72 - 2015-08-13 15:40:02 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
the thing about elite is that it's amazingly like elite and not so much like eve which i believe has been the misunderstanding all along.


True. Completely different kind of games, and Elite is not some "EvE wannabe", it has been around far longer, and newest is faithful to older ones, just now online (I always hoped/imagined that back at 90´s with FFE), better graphics, immersion and some mechanics have also been improved (also, now it is actually possible to fix bugs lol).

EDIT: Also, I don´t see problem playing other games neither (hate "fanboyism"), just play whatever I (/you) feel like. Sometimes Football Manager, Civilisation etc., so not just space games (EVE, ED, SC), or then one in a laptop and other on desktop at same time...

Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:
I don't regret any money I've spent on EvE. Really EvE is fairly cheap entertainment.
A month of EvE is cheaper than going to one movie.
A month of EvE is much cheaper than dinner and drinks.

Just for the money I've spent on divorce lawyers alone, I could sub all of you in this thread and all your alts for a long time. Smile


True. Very much as I think, I´m one of those who have spent on EvE at early years far more, than even as a 200 £ (Alpha-) E:D backer, but now as I know how to make isk in EvE, could have just as well have had after first paid month alt orbiting defensive outpost timers in Factional Warfare for few days (easy, mostly afk when watching tv or chatting), in a cheap insured frig (hull), and get isk to PLEX my account(s), so one could say EvE can be much cheaper than any other game, just 15 "money" from first month! Lol

Kuronaga wrote:
I find it funny to a degree...

Elite is a single player game that happens to have other people stumbling through your business on occasion.

EVE is a multiplayer game that most people happen to play solo 99% of the time. Even social agreements are generally just an excuse to get people to mind their own damn business.


SO true I still can not stop laughing at this comparison... Lol

Like my people, Finland, put into a same game world. LolRollLol




EDIT: oh yeah, best explanation I have heard when playing EvE why neither ED, SC or any other new game will not kill EvE:

Minimum Hardware Requirements.
solrac lara
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2015-08-13 16:03:25 UTC
First i was like can i have your stuff but then i was like can i have your stuff. Shocked
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#74 - 2015-08-13 16:07:16 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
At the rate we're going, SC will be more of a game than EVE in 2-3 years.

So EVE will be dead in 1 year so it'll have time to be buried and rot into some kind of undead anti-game?

Maybe not 1 year, but only an idiot would deny that EVE isn't exactly healthy right now.


Also remember that EvE became success at first decade of the game, with much less people playing/subscribing than now, for years, and still survived, so I would not be so worried, CCP seems to be able to adapt enough to keep game rolling (and it will, so many thousand fanatic supporters happy to subscribe and spent on skins and so on).
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#75 - 2015-08-13 16:08:17 UTC
Yea I've got a Finnish girlfriend so I know what you're talking about.

I mean I thought Japan had the introvert thing bad, but you guys are on a whole different level.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#76 - 2015-08-13 18:16:08 UTC
Avvy wrote:

Cheaper games are usually subsidised with an in-game shop, players can spend far more in those shops than they would normally on a subscription.


Elite has a skin shop just like EVE. Its literally the same thing, your point is invalid. (Except for the same price of one EVE skin you get a package of six skins on Elite)

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#77 - 2015-08-13 19:04:41 UTC
Altrue wrote:
Avvy wrote:

Cheaper games are usually subsidised with an in-game shop, players can spend far more in those shops than they would normally on a subscription.


Elite has a skin shop just like EVE. Its literally the same thing, your point is invalid. (Except for the same price of one EVE skin you get a package of six skins on Elite)


Yes, wonder if Elite will adopt something similar to a PLEX that actually affects the game mechanics itself, maybe remote player owned base in space or own home at a planet?

Naturally it must be done so that existing playerbase don´t feel it as unfair.

EvE gets huge boost of income as thousands of loyal customers buy PLEX and sell it for isk (to people like me, who think they have payed enough already, for a game time), and it works great.

I bet other games (even SC) will follow the money too eventually, each on their own ways and plans.

*Kinda my way of saying I don´t see difference between payed expansions, subscription or other models really, neither, all just different ways of funding the game, but we still end up as payers*
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#78 - 2015-08-13 20:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
What's with the apologists? E:D has one of the worst business models I've seen recently.

For starters you shouldn't have been paying more for beta. You were helping a for-profit business polish their product. It should have been either the same price or preferably less. How obsessed are people with space sims that they threw out their integrity just to get early access?

The next problem is that they weren't upfront about how the packages would work. When people bought the game in beta or upon initial release they understood the DLC would be paid content but they did not realize the DLC would also include all of the previous content. What they have done is sneakily setup a "monthly subscription" in a game where the initial customers were tricked into thinking otherwise. Many would not have bought into the program if they realized they could wait it out and pay less for the same content.

It's disgusting, pretty much, and I won't be touching E:D until they resolve it. Unless CCP has screwed their most loyal customers in such a manner let's not pretend both companies are at all comparable.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#79 - 2015-08-13 20:16:53 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
What's with the apologists? E:D has one of the worst business models I've seen recently.

For starters you shouldn't be paying more for beta. You are helping a for-profit business polish their product. It should be either the same price or preferably less. How obsessed are people with space sims that they throw out their integrity just to get early access?

The next problem is that they weren't upfront about it how the packages would work. When people bought the game in beta or upon initial release they understood the DLC would be paid content but they did not realize the DLC would also include all of the previous content. What they have done is sneakily setup a "monthly subscription" in a game where the initial customers were tricked into thinking otherwise. Many would not have bought into the program if they realized they could wait it out and pay less for the same content.

It's disgusting, pretty much, and I won't be touching E:D until they resolve it. Unless CCP has screwed their most loyal customers in such a manner let's not pretend both companies are at all comparable.


^^ this.
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#80 - 2015-08-13 20:26:06 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
What's with the apologists? E:D has one of the worst business models I've seen recently.

For starters you shouldn't be paying more for beta. You are helping a for-profit business polish their product. It should be either the same price or preferably less. How obsessed are people with space sims that they throw out their integrity just to get early access?

The next problem is that they weren't upfront about it how the packages would work. When people bought the game in beta or upon initial release they understood the DLC would be paid content but they did not realize the DLC would also include all of the previous content. What they have done is sneakily setup a "monthly subscription" in a game where the initial customers were tricked into thinking otherwise. Many would not have bought into the program if they realized they could wait it out and pay less for the same content.

It's disgusting, pretty much, and I won't be touching E:D until they resolve it. Unless CCP has screwed their most loyal customers in such a manner let's not pretend both companies are at all comparable.



O boy I enjoyed early access...

Got to test everything easy and withouth risks, all those hours in a full missile Anaconda blowing up other testers undocking just for gigles....
Not to even mention some benefits for early backers.

And all Alpha/Beta testers got a chance to buy (until release) all future expansions for 20 £ (if not already included in Alpha-offer picked). And it were made very clear future expansions would cost a lot more.

E.D has not so far had any "monthly subscription", as in 9 months it has not had any payed expansions yet, just free ones.

And even when first expansions hit, so far as I have understood it, one can still play ED, just not fly/land at planets or walk at stations etc.


EDIT: and oh yeah, it were ELITE we were backing for, pretty well known and popular game series, and FD as a company has pretty solid reputation, there were really never any doubts this game would not be delivered, or would not deliver what Elite fans wanted.