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Intergalactic Summit

 
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an open letter to jamyl sarum
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Matar Ronin
#81 - 2015-08-11 07:09:12 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
I'm sure you can understand why there is a great deal of skepticism revolving around the Republic's culpability in the Elder War Mr. Ronin. So many Republic servicemen and commanders made the ultimate sacrifice that day.

Naturally because of the great passions this event invoked our hearts go out to those who allowed themselves to react emotionally. That is one of the benefits of a Military command structure, the knee jerk passionate responses can be minimized.

This stands as a prime example of why I am not in the Republic Military, following orders that break your heart is what you agree to do sometimes, a commander must remember his/ her ship belongs to the Republic.

As a non-military pilot if I exercise the luxury to follow my passions the cost will be incurred by my corp/alliance, something I think those rogue emotional commanders failed to calculate.

In my opinion they should have resigned their commissions, then signed up on an independent ship and followed their hearts. Using Republic ships purchased from our people's wages and/or our allies support in violation of orders was not a good choice in my personal opinion, it has besmirched the reputation of our armed forces and that has not been easily cleansed.

But they did go rogue of that I am sure. The plodding politics of Republic military command would never take such a risk against a force as large as the demonic cult empire's fleet. The downside could have been catastrophic, that is something a force sworn to protect the Republic could not risk with conventional forces. Simply put the math in those days would not have played out in our favor in a protracted slugfest.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#82 - 2015-08-11 08:55:17 UTC
Cain Aloga wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:
Yeah and who invaded a peaceful people's home worlds, kidnapped tens of millions, killed millions of others and held an entire culture and civilization hostage for a thousand years so that the the Elders found it necessary to do what they did?

Oh, that's right, the Amarr.

See what I did there, slaver sycophant?


Yes, I see that what you did was, as usual, attempt to divert the conversation onto a completely different point.

You, previously, brought up willingness to engage in 'rational discourse and diplomacy'. No diplomatic relations existed during the first war. We declared war on a foreign nation with which we had no diplomatic relations and conquered it.

But diplomatic relations did exist 7 years ago. You don't get to say that we don't understand rational discourse and diplomacy, when the only ones who broke a century of rational discourse and diplomacy was you, not us.



I do not recall a single Republic navy ship engaging your golden fleets under Republic orders. Sure we were cheering them on, but the Republic was not responsible for the attacks. The Elder fleet was made up primarily by the Thukker Tribe, who at the time were not members of our nation. Should we begin blaming all blood raider activity on the Amarr? After all, they share your religion and culture.

Edit: I also recall a certain Amarr Royal Heir jumping a fleet into Federation Space.



The Empire condemned the action and the royal heir was stripped of all his military forces as well as to go through intense disciplinary measures.

I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves.
Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#83 - 2015-08-11 12:26:03 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Thats odd, because I could swear I saw a healthy mix of Republic vessels among the Elder Fleet during the invasion..


Simon Louvaki wrote:
I'm sure you can understand why there is a great deal of skepticism revolving around the Republic's culpability in the Elder War Mr. Ronin. So many Republic servicemen and commanders made the ultimate sacrifice that day.


It has been made public record that the Republic Fleet was ordered to stand down, and later only to prepare for an attack. Yes, Republic personel participated in the Elder Invasion, but only after disregardin their orders and abandoning their posts. Those individuals no longer hold positions within the fleet. The majority of the forces involved were outside of Republic Jurisdiction or control.

Lyn Farel wrote:



The Empire condemned the action and the royal heir was stripped of all his military forces as well as to go through intense disciplinary measures.

I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves.


The difference here is that while the Elder Fleet was comprised of ships and carried out by a faction out side of the the 4 empires, thus not under any CONCORD or other treaties, the actions taken by that Royal Heir wère not. Official Amarr Navy Ships, acting under official Amarr orders, jumped into Federation Space and engaged the Federal Navy.

The Empire is free to carry out what ever domestic policy it sees fit as necessary, as is the Republic.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#84 - 2015-08-11 13:18:36 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves.


You mean have their ships blown up and then CONCORD considers the matter over and done with?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#85 - 2015-08-11 17:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Cain Aloga wrote:


The difference here is that while the Elder Fleet was comprised of ships and carried out by a faction out side of the the 4 empires, thus not under any CONCORD or other treaties, the actions taken by that Royal Heir wère not. Official Amarr Navy Ships, acting under official Amarr orders, jumped into Federation Space and engaged the Federal Navy.

The Empire is free to carry out what ever domestic policy it sees fit as necessary, as is the Republic.


Please keep in mind that the Thukker Tribe has been more or less completely accepted into the Republic for the first time since the change of regime. Part of the armada that attacked Yulai were Thukker military ships. This makes the Republic harboring them, and protecting them. And if not that, then actively collaborating with them and supporting them.


Arrendis wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves.


You mean have their ships blown up and then CONCORD considers the matter over and done with?


As far as I am aware, the Elders are not immortals.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#86 - 2015-08-11 17:24:27 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves.


You mean have their ships blown up and then CONCORD considers the matter over and done with?


As far as I am aware, the Elders are not immortals.


Then they're not under CONCORD's jurisdiction at all, now are they?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#87 - 2015-08-11 18:09:32 UTC
CONCORD does not deal only with empyreans... It was already there well before cloning was invented. It is an intergalactic organization that was originally built as a bridge between all the five major nations.

It still assumes most of its original functions, and even more. It will not be the first time CONCORD puts a bounty or a warrant on baseliner heads...
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#88 - 2015-08-11 18:34:58 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Rogue Commanders who violated orders and left the Republic Fleet command structure to participate. They are now ex-Commanders.



Cain Aloga wrote:
Those individuals no longer hold positions within the fleet.


Sorry for asking though, but what make you say that? I would be interested to get to know more on that actually?

I have never been able to find any reliable source on what all those 'defectors' became? The only reliable fact that was witnessed is the unwillingness of the Republic to act upon the Elder Fleet when it fled through their territory after escaping through Vard, in defiance of CONCORD directions on the matter...
Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#89 - 2015-08-11 18:43:25 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:


I have never been able to find any reliable source on what all those 'defectors' became? The only reliable fact that was witnessed is the unwillingness of the Republic to act upon the Elder Fleet when it fled through their territory after escaping through Vard, in defiance of CONCORD directions on the matter...


We do not make it a habit of firing upon our heroes, more so when they are our Elders. Forgive me if this is a piece of your culture that I do not understand.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#90 - 2015-08-11 19:35:52 UTC
Well, it is not really that I do not understand... I was simply stating facts. That someone chooses to either heed the words of CONCORD and the other empires, or the will of the Republic is a matter of perspective and opinions...

Also, I digged a bit on the matter of those defectors and it appears that the little facts I found seem to hint in your direction, in that most of those defectors were hot shots that chose to defect a military that was in its majority very midularist. It seems improbable that most of them got reintegrated.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#91 - 2015-08-11 19:49:20 UTC
An Open Letter to Matar Ronin:

C

Sincerely, V.Valate.


A Closed Letter to Matar Ronin:

D

Sincerely, V.Valate.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#92 - 2015-08-11 19:56:29 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Well, it is not really that I do not understand... I was simply stating facts. That someone chooses to either heed the words of CONCORD and the other empires, or the will of the Republic is a matter of perspective and opinions...

Also, I digged a bit on the matter of those defectors and it appears that the little facts I found seem to hint in your direction, in that most of those defectors were hot shots that chose to defect a military that was in its majority very midularist. It seems improbable that most of them got reintegrated.



I doubt that wère the situation reversed, the Imperial Navy would fire upon the empress at the behest of CONCORD and the other Empires.

And Yes, the Republic's Military Forces are still quite 'midularist' as you say, as apposed to the more traditional government that we now have. I at least think that this duality is benificial for the Republic, at least for now.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#93 - 2015-08-12 02:20:31 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
CONCORD does not deal only with empyreans... It was already there well before cloning was invented. It is an intergalactic organization that was originally built as a bridge between all the five major nations.

It still assumes most of its original functions, and even more. It will not be the first time CONCORD puts a bounty or a warrant on baseliner heads...


Exactly how many galaxies do you think CONCORD spans? All of New Eden is only about a hundred light years across.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#94 - 2015-08-12 06:52:02 UTC
I am sorry... ?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#95 - 2015-08-12 07:04:42 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
I am sorry... ?


Intergalactic - means it involves at least two gal-... you know what? It's late, I'm gonna get snippy, we'll chalk it up to imprecise terminology.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#96 - 2015-08-12 08:57:01 UTC
Well, you are right... But why is this Galnet called the IGS in the first place ?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#97 - 2015-08-12 16:42:13 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Well, you are right... But why is this Galnet called the IGS in the first place ?


I can't help it if Galnet executives are idiots.