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Please help. Vindi vs Kronos for L4's?

First post
Author
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-08-10 22:41:07 UTC
Hello. Been running L4s in high sec for about 2 years (no carebear hate please). All perfect battleship skills except Caldari, and have been completing missions rather quickly in a Vindi, Navy Dominix, Navy Apocalypse, and Nightmare. Almost perfect drone / gunnery skills as well.

Several corp mates suggested I move up to a Kronos, Machariel, or Paladin. But although I still haven't figured out how to use EFT, just basic math seems to suggest a Kronos would have inferior damage compared to a Vindi. A vindi gets a 37.5% damage bonus to turrets on top of the 8 it already has (for a total of 11 turrets worth of damage) while a Kronos gets 4 + 100% (for a total of 8 turrets) worth. Lack of range or tank is rarely of any a problem when running L4's. Not to mention I would think when using a MJD, drones become impractical as you are not going to be sending them 100km towards the enemy.

Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station).

I'm sure I can just skill up Marauders and try, but the 5x multiplier scares me Sad
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2015-08-11 00:19:01 UTC
First... wrong forum section.

Second... (reserved for when I get home and on an actual computer)
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#3 - 2015-08-11 00:24:15 UTC
Thread has been moved to Missions & Complexes.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-08-11 00:30:49 UTC
Kronos,

Here is why

You lose the DPS the vindi had, but you get better range, better tank, immune to ewar and you can drop the noctis because you can salvage and loot as you go.

Also

Vindi's are for incursion runners... incursion runners are evil... you don't want to be evil do you?!

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
#5 - 2015-08-11 02:14:28 UTC
Besides, MTUs attract the wrong groups of players looking for a shiny kill mail and MTUs are quite easy to scan down.

Marauder can move and loot ,losing little time and, if the feces hits the fan, you can either turtle up with the bastion or warp away without leaving a MTU to get destroyed by the ninjas.

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#6 - 2015-08-11 07:12:15 UTC
The Kronos is only better if you are facing heavy electronic warfare or need an absurd tank.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-08-11 12:43:02 UTC
since level 4 loot and salvage became pathetic it's best to just do them as fast as you can to get lp.

Vindi fit's this purpose a bit better, although you will want to run with rails for that.
C11H17NO3
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#8 - 2015-08-11 12:59:08 UTC
Golem or rattlesnake over both.

But if you insist on a railgun boat, kronos, just cram with tracking computers and mag stabs..
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#9 - 2015-08-11 13:34:16 UTC
Blaster Kronos. Anyone using rails on a Kronos is just plain stupid. With null ammo I can hit out to ~70km. Any thing further and it's time to use the MJD and switch to Void.

If you like counting missiles or managing drones, by all means, go with a Golem or Rattlesnake; but turret ships are where the real damage is at.
Shionoya Risa
The Xenodus Initiative.
#10 - 2015-08-11 14:23:19 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
but turret ships are where the real damage is at.


Can confirm. Once you switch to a proper ship you'll never look back. Cool
Goochan derp
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-08-13 02:19:34 UTC
pve boils down to dps, if you can do more dps in a vindi and survive then you answered your own question. this is of coarse taking everything into account, a paladin can out dps a vindi if shooting sansha rats.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2015-08-13 05:09:45 UTC
Goochan derp wrote:
pve boils down to dps, if you can do more dps in a vindi and survive then you answered your own question. this is of coarse taking everything into account, a paladin can out dps a vindi if shooting sansha rats.


I imagine that is more a case of applied dps than raw dps. Paladins have broken range, I dunno what else to say about it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Goochan derp
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-08-13 22:12:53 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Goochan derp wrote:
pve boils down to dps, if you can do more dps in a vindi and survive then you answered your own question. this is of coarse taking everything into account, a paladin can out dps a vindi if shooting sansha rats.


I imagine that is more a case of applied dps than raw dps. Paladins have broken range, I dunno what else to say about it.


its about the rats resistance profile vs your damage profile.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-08-14 11:36:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Yong Shin wrote:
Hello. Been running L4s in high sec for about 2 years (no carebear hate please). All perfect battleship skills except Caldari, and have been completing missions rather quickly in a Vindi, Navy Dominix, Navy Apocalypse, and Nightmare. Almost perfect drone / gunnery skills as well.

Several corp mates suggested I move up to a Kronos, Machariel, or Paladin. But although I still haven't figured out how to use EFT, just basic math seems to suggest a Kronos would have inferior damage compared to a Vindi. A vindi gets a 37.5% damage bonus to turrets on top of the 8 it already has (for a total of 11 turrets worth of damage) while a Kronos gets 4 + 100% (for a total of 8 turrets) worth. Lack of range or tank is rarely of any a problem when running L4's. Not to mention I would think when using a MJD, drones become impractical as you are not going to be sending them 100km towards the enemy.

Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station).

I'm sure I can just skill up Marauders and try, but the 5x multiplier scares me Sad



2 YEARS!!! I've been grinding them for a year now, and on the verge of going mental from it. How do you do it?

Anyho, it's mostly dependent of your skills, but from efficiency standpoint, I'd say Golem or Rattlesnake if you got missiles trained.

If turret based, I'd say Vargur/Machariel for capless weapon system and selectable damage type.

If you're just looking for Hybrid only then either a Rail Vindi or Blaster Kronos would do. Of the two I'd choose blaster Kronos for it's AFKing ability.
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-08-17 16:37:14 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Yong Shin wrote:
Hello. Been running L4s in high sec for about 2 years (no carebear hate please). All perfect battleship skills except Caldari, and have been completing missions rather quickly in a Vindi, Navy Dominix, Navy Apocalypse, and Nightmare. Almost perfect drone / gunnery skills as well.

Several corp mates suggested I move up to a Kronos, Machariel, or Paladin. But although I still haven't figured out how to use EFT, just basic math seems to suggest a Kronos would have inferior damage compared to a Vindi. A vindi gets a 37.5% damage bonus to turrets on top of the 8 it already has (for a total of 11 turrets worth of damage) while a Kronos gets 4 + 100% (for a total of 8 turrets) worth. Lack of range or tank is rarely of any a problem when running L4's. Not to mention I would think when using a MJD, drones become impractical as you are not going to be sending them 100km towards the enemy.

Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station).

I'm sure I can just skill up Marauders and try, but the 5x multiplier scares me Sad



2 YEARS!!! I've been grinding them for a year now, and on the verge of going mental from it. How do you do it?

Anyho, it's mostly dependent of your skills, but from efficiency standpoint, I'd say Golem or Rattlesnake if you got missiles trained.

If turret based, I'd say Vargur/Machariel for capless weapon system and selectable damage type.

If you're just looking for Hybrid only then either a Rail Vindi or Blaster Kronos would do. Of the two I'd choose blaster Kronos for it's AFKing ability.


Haha. Patience and more patience my friend. I'll keep that in mind! I just thought the Machariel was ugly, and I don't like missiles.
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-08-17 16:40:56 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
since level 4 loot and salvage became pathetic it's best to just do them as fast as you can to get lp.

Vindi fit's this purpose a bit better, although you will want to run with rails for that.


Haha thanks for the response. I actually remember you from when I first started the game two years ago. You and some guy were arguing on the forums about best ship to run L4's. He was on and on about how the Machariel was king and everything else was pitiful in comparison, while you advocated the Domi and CNR. Took your arguments to heart, and I skilled up core skills + Gallente BS to V & Drones to V first, and Domi was the first BS in my career Blink
Inir Ishtori
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-08-17 18:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Inir Ishtori
Sadly i don't have any experience with the Vindicator, but Kronos looks to me like it's just a way more flexible choice all around, if you stick with missions in Gallente space.

You can put rails on the same general base fitting you would use with blasters(but in general you probably shouldn't) and also enjoy all the advantages of the marauder hulls. Much better range with rails might be of importance, too.
Other than that, Kronos is great to use with MJD, mobile depot and tractor beams(for mission-relevant cans). Even if salvage and loot got nerfed, they are still an additional income and for me just a byproduct of the missioning, as dropping MTU and using 2 salvagers or just drones isn't exactly a demanding activity while i'm blapping things around me. Also, check the prices of Null and Void against faction antimatter.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#18 - 2015-08-17 19:25:32 UTC
Sell the others, skill up in projectiles, get an AC Mach with two Geckos

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#19 - 2015-08-18 02:58:09 UTC
Yong Shin wrote:
Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station).

Marauders let you "shoot and loot". Extra tractor beams can really reduce mission times as they allow you to snag mission objectives independently of a MTU or in situations where you're moving and don't want to go back to retrieve a MTU. In conjunction with a MTU, it allows you to simultaneously bring in up to 4 wrecks. Do keep in-mind that a popular pastime is to scan down and shoot absent MTUs...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#20 - 2015-08-18 14:48:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Yong Shin wrote:
Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station).

Marauders let you "shoot and loot". Extra tractor beams can really reduce mission times as they allow you to snag mission objectives independently of a MTU or in situations where you're moving and don't want to go back to retrieve a MTU. In conjunction with a MTU, it allows you to simultaneously bring in up to 4 wrecks. Do keep in-mind that a popular pastime is to scan down and shoot absent MTUs...


Use your tractor beams to reel in the close ones, so the MTU is going for the ones out of your range.


Also, in regards to fittings, remember we now have the mobile depot. You can actually take one along with extra fittings, and refit your ship while in the mission, as needed. For instance, pesky ninja looter in your missions? Drop a mobile depot and refit to PVP with Heavy Neuts and a point. Can't handle the DPS? Refit for max tank. NPCs outside of your blaster range? Refit to rails.
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