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Catching frigates in low sec.
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Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-12-25 14:51:23 UTC
I used to catch frigs pretty easily in a triple sensor-boosted Celestis. But since the session change timer was nerfed it's not nearly as good since it doesn't have enough DPS to kill them before they re-dock or reapproach and jump out. With a buddy it could probably still work on gates, but I'd rather roam in a Hurricane or something than catch small fish on a gate if my corpmates are around.

KB Link
Queue K'Umber
Lucky Golden Emperor's Jade Phoenix Dragon Bistro
#22 - 2011-12-26 03:09:05 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
How hard is it to catch a frigate in low sec? I mean outside of sitting a smartbombing battleship where they would land near the gate, how hard is it? I have heard of a ton of people remote sensor boosting a Phobos and he could point anything outside of a shuttle or something before it warps off.


Has this toon been sold?
You (or your previous RL human) killed a dramiel with a hauler.
Keep doing THAT!

I have seen several frigs caught on lowsec gates with sensor boosted HICS and Tempests.
It is one of the funniest sights to behold in eve.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2011-12-26 05:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Queue K'Umber wrote:
Has this toon been sold?

No way!

Queue K'Umber wrote:
You (or your previous RL human) killed a dramiel with a hauler.

Yes, but that in no way qualifies me in knowing the ins and outs of everything frigate related. P

Queue K'Umber wrote:
Keep doing THAT!

It gets rather boring after a while. Killing a Dramiel the first time was great, mostly because of the pilot who was a cry baby on the forums so when he did die, it was far more funny than if it had been a regular person.

Besides, I would much rather do different stuff, like events. Which this thread happens to relate to. Just trying to do some research and such before I finish the rules and set the stage.
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#24 - 2011-12-26 22:46:35 UTC
My Legion has 2300 scan res. I miss Shuttles, Fast Inties and Dramiels. I get tons of Cov Ops that wait too long to hit their cloak.

I also get pods thanks to the delay after their ship explodes. Tons of pods.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-12-27 10:49:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Legion is king of super scan res with a tactical targeting network and a sebo or two while tanking sentries. With even a modest T3 fit (T2/faction not deadspace mods) it can easily get down to close to instalocking on frigates while still easily ignoring the gate guns.

EDIT: Basically what Jones Bones said.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-27 18:02:53 UTC
You could just grow a pair and learn how to actually PvP frigate versus frigate and feel the rush of a close fight where you barely make it out in structure.

Oh wait you mean you want to shoot frigates in a T3 or a Battlecruiser?

And here I was thinking this was a PvP thread.

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#27 - 2011-12-27 18:08:48 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:
You could just grow a pair and learn how to actually PvP frigate versus frigate and feel the rush of a close fight where you barely make it out in structure.

Oh wait you mean you want to shoot frigates in a T3 or a Battlecruiser?

And here I was thinking this was a PvP thread.


I also get angry when people play in the Sandbox wrong. Shall we form a support group?

Wait, this isn't the miner tears thread.... where am I?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#28 - 2011-12-27 18:57:05 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
What part of solo don't you understand. All of it probably.


I understand that solo PvP has been dead for a very long time now. The only thing that comes close is fake solo PvP which means using RR alts, bonus alts and scout alts to help.

Anyways this is straying away from the topic. So it is my understanding is that if the frigate can align and warp in under two seconds; anything outside of another frigate won't be able to catch it?



Well I disagree that solo is dead. But your events sound pretty nice so I hope it goes well.

But as for this discussion. I often keep a couple of warp stabs and nanos/intertia stabs in my cargo. If I know I need to go through a gate camps I dock up and fit them to my ship. If they aren't wartargets they will usually only have one tackle fast enough to catch you and the 2 stabs will help. If people are really worried they can bring a cheap travel fit (shield mods ab to burn back to gate if caught etc) with them then when they get in the system they want they can dock and change to the fit they want.

here is a travel fit rifter that I lost to a gate camp due to being afk.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14080799


I never would have lost it if I wasn't afk. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any fits you can use to travel low sec afk. Cool

The other thing is the cloak mwd trick should work with frigs unless they have too low of cpu to fit the cloak.

Against war targets you will find sebo arty thrashers all over the place. They do the damage of lower tier cruisers but have the sensor strength of frigates. Its pretty stupid.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-12-27 22:44:20 UTC
No matter how high your scan res is, you can still have difficulties catching frigates due to lag (and possibly human reaction times if you don't have your overview set up correctly).
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#30 - 2011-12-27 23:03:59 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
No matter how high your scan res is, you can still have difficulties catching frigates due to lag (and possibly human reaction times if you don't have your overview set up correctly).


It's not lag, it's Eve operating in 1s ticks and not real time.

1st Tick: Targeting time (assuming not longer than 1s)
2nd Tick: Module Activates.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-12-28 05:08:23 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Taedrin wrote:
No matter how high your scan res is, you can still have difficulties catching frigates due to lag (and possibly human reaction times if you don't have your overview set up correctly).


It's not lag, it's Eve operating in 1s ticks and not real time.

1st Tick: Targeting time (assuming not longer than 1s)
2nd Tick: Module Activates.


I'm not certain that we can simply assume that this is the way things work. I know that EVE has a 1 second tick, but obviously not everything operates on the tick. I would imagine that what happens is that events are processed on the 1 second tick, but the server processes them in such a way that real time consequences are maintained.

So for example, in this case the victim still gets caught:

0 seconds: ship A decloaks. (tick)
.5 seconds: Ship B starts targeting Ship A (.25 second targeting time)
.8 seconds: Ship A activates cloaking device
1 seconds: (tick)

Even though the server processes the events at .5 and .8 seconds at the same time, the server keeps the events in order (probably using a priority queue) Or in other words, the processing for tick 1 probably looks like this:
1) Ship B started targeting Ship A .5 seconds ago. Because the targeting time is .25 seconds, this means:
2) Ship B successfully targeted Ship A .25 seconds ago
3) Ship A's cloaking attempt failed, even though the command was received .2 seconds ago, because the server calculates that it should have been targeted .25 seconds ago (.25 > .2)

Of course, this is all just speculation and guesswork on my part.
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2011-12-29 19:25:57 UTC
wallenbergaren wrote:
Best fast locking ship in lowsec is a Legion which can easily get interceptor levels of scan res. With one of those you can catch pretty much anything that doesn't cloak, but you don't see them all that often so generally in lowsec you can fly around with total impunity in a frig except for smartbombing BS but you'll often know where those are. If you're doing an event though... people will be able to catch frigates that are participating in a race or something unless they do the cloak + mwd trick.



I would encourage anyone with a Legion to sit on a gate solo for hours on end in a gate camp. Seems like a great way to spend an afternoon/evening Roll

Of course if gate camping is your primary income source I have a feeling you'll never be able to afford one in the first place. Gate camping, like suicide ganking is lowest common denominator PVP and is only really effective at enforcing Darwin's law IMO. For the rest of us, its just annoying.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Jones Bones
Battle Toad Brigade
Ribbit.
#33 - 2011-12-30 19:37:40 UTC
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:

Of course if gate camping is your primary income source I have a feeling you'll never be able to afford one in the first place. Gate camping, like suicide ganking is lowest common denominator PVP and is only really effective at enforcing Darwin's law IMO. For the rest of us, its just annoying.


I've made nearly 4b this month camping a gate a couple hours here and there this month.

Problem?
Trololol Master
M.C.O.S.
#34 - 2011-12-30 21:07:13 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:

Of course if gate camping is your primary income source I have a feeling you'll never be able to afford one in the first place. Gate camping, like suicide ganking is lowest common denominator PVP and is only really effective at enforcing Darwin's law IMO. For the rest of us, its just annoying.


I've made nearly 4b this month camping a gate a couple hours here and there this month.

Problem?



wait, which month was it again? this month or this month?
Plutonian
Intransigent
#35 - 2012-01-01 07:07:19 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Taedrin wrote:
No matter how high your scan res is, you can still have difficulties catching frigates due to lag (and possibly human reaction times if you don't have your overview set up correctly).


It's not lag, it's Eve operating in 1s ticks and not real time.

1st Tick: Targeting time (assuming not longer than 1s)
2nd Tick: Module Activates.


I'm not certain that we can simply assume that this is the way things work. I know that EVE has a 1 second tick, but obviously not everything operates on the tick. I would imagine that what happens is that events are processed on the 1 second tick, but the server processes them in such a way that real time consequences are maintained.

So for example, in this case the victim still gets caught:

0 seconds: ship A decloaks. (tick)
.5 seconds: Ship B starts targeting Ship A (.25 second targeting time)
.8 seconds: Ship A activates cloaking device
1 seconds: (tick)

Even though the server processes the events at .5 and .8 seconds at the same time, the server keeps the events in order (probably using a priority queue) Or in other words, the processing for tick 1 probably looks like this:
1) Ship B started targeting Ship A .5 seconds ago. Because the targeting time is .25 seconds, this means:
2) Ship B successfully targeted Ship A .25 seconds ago
3) Ship A's cloaking attempt failed, even though the command was received .2 seconds ago, because the server calculates that it should have been targeted .25 seconds ago (.25 > .2)

Of course, this is all just speculation and guesswork on my part.


While looking at a combat log the other day, I noticed that as my pod was caught, I'd spamed 'warp to' eight times in one second (according to the log). Personally I didn't think it was possible to click a mouse button eight times in a single second. Then again, I really wanted to keep those implants...

Please explain how this works in the framework you posted above. Big smile
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#36 - 2012-01-01 14:27:19 UTC
Taedrin wrote:
I'm not certain that we can simply assume that this is the way things work. I know that EVE has a 1 second tick, but obviously not everything operates on the tick. I would imagine that what happens is that events are processed on the 1 second tick, but the server processes them in such a way that real time consequences are maintained.

So for example, in this case the victim still gets caught:

0 seconds: ship A decloaks. (tick)
.5 seconds: Ship B starts targeting Ship A (.25 second targeting time)
.8 seconds: Ship A activates cloaking device
1 seconds: (tick)

Even though the server processes the events at .5 and .8 seconds at the same time, the server keeps the events in order (probably using a priority queue) Or in other words, the processing for tick 1 probably looks like this:
1) Ship B started targeting Ship A .5 seconds ago. Because the targeting time is .25 seconds, this means:
2) Ship B successfully targeted Ship A .25 seconds ago
3) Ship A's cloaking attempt failed, even though the command was received .2 seconds ago, because the server calculates that it should have been targeted .25 seconds ago (.25 > .2)

Of course, this is all just speculation and guesswork on my part.

I used to think that, then I put together a 4k scan res loki to try and catch cloaked ships (tactical targeting, sebos and scan res rigs). Anyway, things don't seem to happen sequentially like you suggest.

E.g. if they hit cloak at any time in that one second, you won't catch them. Even if you hit lock in 0.5 seconds with a 0.2 second lock time it will still count as if it all happened simultaneously on the one second mark.

I did kill quite a few ceptors though.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Katie Door
the united
#37 - 2012-01-02 13:14:50 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
How hard is it to catch a frigate in low sec? I mean outside of sitting a smartbombing battleship where they would land near the gate, how hard is it? I have heard of a ton of people remote sensor boosting a Phobos and he could point anything outside of a shuttle or something before it warps off.


well, there's a few ways to catch frigates in low=sec. to name a few:

1) RSB the frack out of interceptor or daredevil
2) RSB the frell out of a legion
3) RSB a HIC or your race's choice
4) RSB a Keres
5) RSB a Lachesis

The above listing is most likely not complete, and neither will above mentioned give you 100% success rate.

Have fun figuring out the logistics and support needed, aswell as the fittings of the ships involved/mentioned, to pull it off.
K1RTH G3RS3N
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-01-02 13:24:51 UTC
the 1second delay on disruptor activation, aka disruptor lag, is enough for most standard frigates to get through. my 1300 scan res broadsword or whatthefuckever WT killer isn't enough for frigs with some form of agility. if you're quick on the ctrl click you should catch most cucumbers though.
Katie Door
the united
#39 - 2012-01-02 14:00:38 UTC
K1RTH G3RS3N wrote:
the 1second delay on disruptor activation, aka disruptor lag, is enough for most standard frigates to get through. my 1300 scan res broadsword or whatthefuckever WT killer isn't enough for frigs with some form of agility. if you're quick on the ctrl click you should catch most cucumbers though.


you need more scan res. period. and even then it still is a lottery.

w/e
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#40 - 2012-01-02 18:03:26 UTC
Plutonian wrote:
Taedrin wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Taedrin wrote:
No matter how high your scan res is, you can still have difficulties catching frigates due to lag (and possibly human reaction times if you don't have your overview set up correctly).


It's not lag, it's Eve operating in 1s ticks and not real time.

1st Tick: Targeting time (assuming not longer than 1s)
2nd Tick: Module Activates.


I'm not certain that we can simply assume that this is the way things work. I know that EVE has a 1 second tick, but obviously not everything operates on the tick. I would imagine that what happens is that events are processed on the 1 second tick, but the server processes them in such a way that real time consequences are maintained.

So for example, in this case the victim still gets caught:

0 seconds: ship A decloaks. (tick)
.5 seconds: Ship B starts targeting Ship A (.25 second targeting time)
.8 seconds: Ship A activates cloaking device
1 seconds: (tick)

Even though the server processes the events at .5 and .8 seconds at the same time, the server keeps the events in order (probably using a priority queue) Or in other words, the processing for tick 1 probably looks like this:
1) Ship B started targeting Ship A .5 seconds ago. Because the targeting time is .25 seconds, this means:
2) Ship B successfully targeted Ship A .25 seconds ago
3) Ship A's cloaking attempt failed, even though the command was received .2 seconds ago, because the server calculates that it should have been targeted .25 seconds ago (.25 > .2)

Of course, this is all just speculation and guesswork on my part.


While looking at a combat log the other day, I noticed that as my pod was caught, I'd spamed 'warp to' eight times in one second (according to the log). Personally I didn't think it was possible to click a mouse button eight times in a single second. Then again, I really wanted to keep those implants...

Please explain how this works in the framework you posted above. Big smile



Warping pods out has been broken since incarna.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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