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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Matari: To See a Republic

Author
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#21 - 2015-07-30 19:28:57 UTC
Like those leading all four of the major nations in New Eden, yes. That they've managed to make their people believe their governing system is more than a popularity contest is even more impressive. The Federation leadership are spectacularly cunning and skillful politicians, there can be no doubt about that.

It remains a rather silly notion as a form of government when you start applying things like honesty and honour.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#22 - 2015-07-30 21:05:38 UTC
Two things limit the reasonable function of a Democracy: Education, and communications.

Education, because a pure Democracy requires its citizens to be knowledgeable on all areas they'll weigh in on. Should a particle physicist have a say in the legality of questionable, but possibly highly beneficial biotech research? Should a carpenter in the hinterlands of Matar be consulted on the correct level of appropriations for the Republic Security Services? The list goes on, endlessly. As our lives become more complicated, the chances of anyone being well-rounded enough in a single lifetime to reasonably be fit to make all of these decisions is laughable, at best.

Communications because decisions take time to implement. We've pretty much got that down with the current FTL comm systems, but it's always worth remembering that those who can't communicate their intentions and desires are being disenfranchised when it comes time to tally the votes.

And it doesn't work. So I guess that's three things.

Really, how many times have we seen democratic structures populated by the most capable humans New Eden has ever produced - and say what you will about our morals, most capsuleers possess a depth and breadth of skills that is, frankly, staggering - fragment and destroy themselves?

People work best in smaller groups. When we need to work in larger groups, they're best organized as those smaller groups, cooperating under the leadership of another small group. Keep going up the chain, and the model stays the same. That's why the successful groups are either openly led by a small group, or pay lip service to the masses while manipulating them into clamoring for exactly the things their leaders want the chance to do to them.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#23 - 2015-07-30 21:19:26 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:


Minmatar capsuleers, are you a 'Republican'?

No. I am of the Sebiestor tribe.

N'maro Makari wrote:


What are your thoughts on the Republic? Be as general or specific as you like.

It has it's uses.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#24 - 2015-07-30 21:26:39 UTC
Why, little goon, I could almost be excused for thinking you were describing a system. A system of... clans, perhaps. Clans uniting in Tribes, as it were. A wild idea here, but these Tribes could then form something like a Council.

No, I suppose this is getting a little too silly.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#25 - 2015-07-30 21:33:00 UTC
Or a system of bands of roving marauders, linking up under jointly acknowledged warleaders to form great fleets, or under wise organizers to give guidance when not at war, all led by a group of these leaders who confer, discuss, and then announce their decisions under the aegis of a single supreme leader with a ridiculous name... like 'Sanmatar' or 'Mittens'....

Yeah. Not so different, really.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#26 - 2015-07-30 21:37:41 UTC
... I am not entirely sure I will ever be able to forgive you for drawing comparisons between my Tribes and the goons.

... accurately.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#27 - 2015-07-30 21:56:08 UTC
Considering we're the third largest power in New Eden in terms of systems held, after the Federation and the State? Let's just say that if the Imperium can hold eighteen more systems than the Amarr proper... I have faith that the Tribes can pry more of our people free.
Trenmir Bedala
Bedala Salvage
#28 - 2015-07-31 12:21:43 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
For a little clarification, Republic does not automatically mean democracy. It simply means; not a monarchy.

What are people's thoughts about democracy in the Republic, or among Matari in general?

Remember, it was largely introduced to us by the Gallente. There are variations from clan to clan and tribe to tribe, but few I think could be described as democratic.


Republic not democracy, not in Federation way at least.
Tribal councils also not democracy by same measure.

But all Matari have say, have for generations long before Gallente and Amarr, this function of Standing Place.
The wise Chief and council listen to voices in Standing Place before making decisions. Those must be made within framework of existing law, as it Republic, not Oligarchy.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#29 - 2015-07-31 15:37:05 UTC
I really don't know what the difference is between a Republic and a Democracy. It all sounds the same to me!
Arrendis
TK Corp
#30 - 2015-07-31 22:27:14 UTC
A true, or 'pure' democracy, Scherezad, would give everyone in it a vote on all matters. Then you have a representative democracy, where the decisions are made by individuals chosen to represent the interests of the people, and accountable to them.

A 'Republic', strictly, is any form of governance that does not invest power in either an hereditary ruler, or a single all-powerful despot / dictator. It tends, in common usage, to refer to a representative democracy, especially where 'Republican' values are spoken of in the abstract.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#31 - 2015-07-31 22:42:39 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
For a little clarification, Republic does not automatically mean democracy. It simply means; not a monarchy.

What are people's thoughts about democracy in the Republic, or among Matari in general?


As far as my thoughts, I wouldn't be voting anyways. At this point it's not something that effects me and I shouldn't have a say on what happens to my kin. Really if its what my people want I'm for it. I hope that if the system as a whole would be seen as beneficial its origin would not be an issue.
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#32 - 2015-08-01 08:34:44 UTC
Bear in mind any leader can only stay that way with the consent of the led. It doesn't matter how much power you have in theory. If you annoy or frighten those who you lead enough you will be removed.

This has generally been the case with clan & tribal leaders. Clan chiefs are chosen by what amounts to extended family so are trusted to look after the interests of the family. If they prove to be incompetent they don't last long.

All that is important about the process of selecting a leader is that it works to advance the best candidate for the job.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#33 - 2015-08-01 16:01:23 UTC
I would describe the pure tribal system as a proto-cellular democracy. The leader of a clan is chosen by the members of the clan. There's no an 'election' in the typical sense of the term, but those who end up as clan elders generally do so with the consent of the clan. Then those elders go to the sub-tribe council, who chose leaders to send to the tribal council via the same methods. And thenm the tribal council choses those will be sent to represent the tribe in front of the larger matari people. Its a good system, and it does a great job at the lower levels of keeping local power local.

At its best, the system is meritocratic, responsive, and localized. At its worst its hereditary and dogmatic. Its not perfect, but it was good enough to build the government of Origin based loosely on the tribal model.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#34 - 2015-08-02 01:14:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ValentinaDLM
I do not support the Republic. As for thoughts on the Republic, I think it could be made Into a place worth supporting it however isn't there right now.
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-08-02 18:38:10 UTC
I vehemently hate the Republic. I believe the best thing to do is to take all of their ISK, enslave them, and destroy them from the inside.
Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#36 - 2015-08-04 20:33:24 UTC
Clan, tribe, people. If you were to ask most Matari, this would likely be the answer. Already many have answered in such a way. Such thinking is common amongst the tribes, and serves us during our squabbles and internal politics. However we no longer live in a universe where all we know is our mother planet. The skies are populated by many peaples, entire civilisations that span hundreds of worlds. In front of such adversity, we cannot afford to let our tribal lines fracture us.

I Support the SanMatar. I Support the Tribal Council. I Support the Republic. Not becuase I am a Brutor; many non Matari do not even distinguish between the tribes. I do so becuase I AM Matari, just as any Sebiestor, Krusual, Thukker, Starkmanir,
Nefantar, or Vherokior is Matari. If I were to fly to war, it would not be to defend only my Tribe, but all. If I were to recieve foreign dignitaries, I would not just represent my tribe, but all. If all I could do to support the Republic were too mine rocks, or work fields, then I would do so not just to benifit my tribe, but all.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Svetlana Laknaya
Khushakor Clan
#37 - 2015-08-04 23:21:04 UTC
I fight for my clan, my tribe, my people, and the Republic, it ain't perfect but, it is the best hope for all of our people.
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#38 - 2015-08-10 04:52:20 UTC
Zero support for the Republic here.

The Republic does not have the best interests of Matari in mind.

I think we're not meant to rule. I don't mean we all gotta be slaves. But I think our best strength is in guiding, not leading. Teach, not preach. Be a voice of people, not a political voice.

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”

Angel T Hunter
Republic Military School
#39 - 2015-08-10 12:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Angel T Hunter
I have to be honest..

I dont give a rats ass about the republic.
I did try to care once.. But I didnt get the feeling that the Republic caref about me so..
Well.. Fu*k it..
Haruchai Khan
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-08-10 13:16:51 UTC
Angel T Hunter wrote:
I have to be honest..

I dont give a rats ass about the republic.
I did try to care once.. But I didnt get the feeling that the Republic caref about me so..
Well.. Fu*k it..



Perhaps your criminality had something to do with that?

In recompense, if you hand yourself in to a Republic Justice Department office, I can see to it that you are provided with warm food and board for several years. Possibly art classes.

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.