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Crime & Punishment

 
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Official announcement regarding Anti-Ganker "White Knights".

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2015-08-08 21:21:53 UTC
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
"The core feature/design principle of Eve as stated by CCP"
and
"you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept"

are two different concepts.

While the ADVICE of considering the implications of pvp as it is the core game concept is stating that the core game concept is be aware that the mechanics do not provent people from considering every action you take as a form of pvp. The statemente that the core feature/design principle of eve as stated by ccp is pvp means they designed the game with the specific intent to make players engage in one or other form of opposing other players in some way.

The same material you cited also says that pvp is unavoidable, which is conceptually true, but actually it is not. If instead of doing all I do with multiple account I had someone to do what my alts do, for a generous payment, I would be "unpvpable", as people objected to waste time in making station environments and possibly invasion of capitains quarters and assassinations. So if I had only my trading alts, I would be avoiding pvp entirely. While the game itself and the people I employ still pvp, I dont. And when you say so I would be avoiding aspects of the game, I would say, do you know if I want them ? The point is, "pvp avoided".

If everyone avoid pvp, then everyone avoid pvp. That is just a retorical statement, but still true.

If I sub just to play on the test server, I still play, I still enjoy several aspects of the game, and I still avoiding pvp.

There are lots of ways in which I am effectivelly avoiding pvp.

Have you ever heard of marketing ? CCP says eve is a pvp sandbox the same way blizz say WoW is an epic experience and arena net says Guildwars is different from regular mmos. It is a catchy thing people will see if they look for it, but it is not a thing.

I spend years and years in eve with 2 entire accounts (6 chars) never leaving dock, and using alts to haul or lend bonuses not because I need them, but because I earn more money that way. I spend half a year in low, 2 months in WH and 1 month in null, and those alts never had one engagement, nor they could have if someone else wanted.

In a general concept THE EVE UNIVERSE pvp will always happen, because there at least one person looking for a fight. In particular, if a person do not want a fight, for anything, you can just average the market not opposing players in there, not out pricing, just moving stuff around.

If you say that is pvp, it is like saying someone call me a whore, I dont care, and call that a discussion.


For such a long essay, you didn't really say much of value. Marketing is one thing, but what EVE has been for over a decade, and continues to be, proves its PVP nature. You can argue against that all you like, but you'll be wrong every time.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Paula Enkhashour
Doomheim
#82 - 2015-08-08 21:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Paula Enkhashour
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
"The core feature/design principle of Eve as stated by CCP"
and
"you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept"

are two different concepts.

While the ADVICE of considering the implications of pvp as it is the core game concept is stating that the core game concept is be aware that the mechanics do not provent people from considering every action you take as a form of pvp. The statemente that the core feature/design principle of eve as stated by ccp is pvp means they designed the game with the specific intent to make players engage in one or other form of opposing other players in some way.

The same material you cited also says that pvp is unavoidable, which is conceptually true, but actually it is not. If instead of doing all I do with multiple account I had someone to do what my alts do, for a generous payment, I would be "unpvpable", as people objected to waste time in making station environments and possibly invasion of capitains quarters and assassinations. So if I had only my trading alts, I would be avoiding pvp entirely. While the game itself and the people I employ still pvp, I dont. And when you say so I would be avoiding aspects of the game, I would say, do you know if I want them ? The point is, "pvp avoided".

If everyone avoid pvp, then everyone avoid pvp. That is just a retorical statement, but still true.

If I sub just to play on the test server, I still play, I still enjoy several aspects of the game, and I still avoiding pvp.

There are lots of ways in which I am effectivelly avoiding pvp.

Have you ever heard of marketing ? CCP says eve is a pvp sandbox the same way blizz say WoW is an epic experience and arena net says Guildwars is different from regular mmos. It is a catchy thing people will see if they look for it, but it is not a thing.

I spend years and years in eve with 2 entire accounts (6 chars) never leaving dock, and using alts to haul or lend bonuses not because I need them, but because I earn more money that way. I spend half a year in low, 2 months in WH and 1 month in null, and those alts never had one engagement, nor they could have if someone else wanted.

In a general concept THE EVE UNIVERSE pvp will always happen, because there at least one person looking for a fight. In particular, if a person do not want a fight, for anything, you can just average the market not opposing players in there, not out pricing, just moving stuff around.

If you say that is pvp, it is like saying someone call me a whore, I dont care, and call that a discussion.


For such a long essay, you didn't really say much of value. Marketing is one thing, but what EVE has been for over a decade, and continues to be, proves its PVP nature. You can argue against that all you like, but you'll be wrong every time.


Talking about empty post that doesnt really says nothing.

Let me say what you said in short words: "You wrote too much and you are wrong. Because I say are wrong. And you will always be wrong. Because you are wrong."

I am not discussing there is pvp, and that pvp is an ever present thing. I discuss only that you imply pvp is unavoidable and essential for eve, and you are wrong. me and hundreds of pilots prove you wrong.
Maybe if you get ccp to develop station environment, then you are welcome to come to my quarter and pvp me to death. Until then, pvp will still be avoidable, therefore, not the main concern.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#83 - 2015-08-08 21:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
"The core feature/design principle of Eve as stated by CCP"
and
"you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept"

are two different concepts.

While the ADVICE of considering the implications of pvp as it is the core game concept is stating that the core game concept is be aware that the mechanics do not provent people from considering every action you take as a form of pvp. The statemente that the core feature/design principle of eve as stated by ccp is pvp means they designed the game with the specific intent to make players engage in one or other form of opposing other players in some way.
That doesn't change the reality that both are true of Eve. CCP did design the game with the specific intent of making players engage with each other either in cooperation or in opposition, and every action does contribute to conflict of some kind.

Quote:
The same material you cited also says that pvp is unavoidable, which is conceptually true, but actually it is not. If instead of doing all I do with multiple account I had someone to do what my alts do, for a generous payment, I would be "unpvpable", as people objected to waste time in making station environments and possibly invasion of capitains quarters and assassinations. So if I had only my trading alts, I would be avoiding pvp entirely. While the game itself and the people I employ still pvp, I dont. And when you say so I would be avoiding aspects of the game, I would say, do you know if I want them ? The point is, "pvp avoided".
Avoiding PvP by use of game mechanics and game knowledge is PvP in itself; denying people killmails is as much PvP as collecting killmails.

Quote:
If I sub just to play on the test server, I still play, I still enjoy several aspects of the game, and I still avoiding pvp.
That's not playing Eve, that's playing a non persistent singleplayer version of Eve. You may as well be playing Freelancer or any of the X games.

Quote:
Have you ever heard of marketing ? CCP says eve is a pvp sandbox the same way blizz say WoW is an epic experience and arena net says Guildwars is different from regular mmos. It is a catchy thing people will see if they look for it, but it is not a thing.
Marketing is misleading, no doubt about it, it's also subjective. Blizzard are trying to provide their users with what they consider to be an epic experience, CCP are trying to provide their users with a PvP sandbox, ArenaNet are no doubt trying to provide something a little different. I can't speak for WoW or Guildwars as I play neither, but Eve makes a fair go of providing a PvP sandbox as promised, unfortunately some people keep trying to divide the sandbox in two to suit themselves.

Quote:
I spend years and years in eve with 2 entire accounts (6 chars) never leaving dock, and using alts to haul or lend bonuses not because I need them, but because I earn more money that way. I spend half a year in low, 2 months in WH and 1 month in null, and those alts never had one engagement, nor they could have if someone else wanted.

In a general concept THE EVE UNIVERSE pvp will always happen, because there at least one person looking for a fight. In particular, if a person do not want a fight, for anything, you can just average the market not opposing players in there, not out pricing, just moving stuff around.

If you say that is pvp, it is like saying someone call me a whore, I dont care, and call that a discussion.
You used ingame social structures and mechanics to minimise the risks present in the game; that my friend is risk management and a form of PvP, as in denying others their goal of denying you yours.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Paula Enkhashour
Doomheim
#84 - 2015-08-08 21:49:29 UTC
Everything is pvp, therefore nothing is. You can only classify something as anything provided that there is another thing. If there is only light, there is no light because the concept of light is created to distinguish what it defines from the absense of what it doesnt.

So the more you try to say that everything is one thing, the more you prove that it is not.

"Saying everyone is special is the same as saying no one is."
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#85 - 2015-08-08 22:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
Everything is pvp, therefore nothing is. You can only classify something as anything provided that there is another thing. If there is only light, there is no light because the concept of light is created to distinguish what it defines from the absense of what it doesnt.

So the more you try to say that everything is one thing, the more you prove that it is not.

"Saying everyone is special is the same as saying no one is."
I'm what many would call a bear, as opposed to carebear. I don't do ship to ship combat because I don't overly enjoy the adrenalin and pressure.

However, I will quite happily drive prices up or down on the market to my benefit. I will sit there in my Procurer mining asteroids out from underneath others, denying them resources and wasting their time. I do make sure that I haul bulky goods up to a set value in a tanked, fast aligning ship to make sure that the other guy is an easier or more desirable target, and outsource expensive cargo to a 3rd party with a profitable collateral level. I will sell stuff at cost or a loss if it means I sell something else at enough profit to cover any loss. I will take advantage of anothers misfortune to make a profit.

These are all PvP activities. If you believe otherwise then you will always be at a disadvantage here.

As an aside, you'd be amazed at the abuse you get from the few miners who realise that you've just nommed 60+% of the roid they've been mining for 10 minutes.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Avvy
Doomheim
#86 - 2015-08-08 22:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
Everything is pvp, therefore nothing is. You can only classify something as anything provided that there is another thing. If there is only light, there is no light because the concept of light is created to distinguish what it defines from the absense of what it doesnt.

So the more you try to say that everything is one thing, the more you prove that it is not.

"Saying everyone is special is the same as saying no one is."



EVE is essentially a PvP game, you can avoid it, you could sit in a station and do nothing.

Even using the market is a form of PvP.

Why don't you google the meaning of PvP as I'm not sure you really understand the concept.
Paula Enkhashour
Doomheim
#87 - 2015-08-08 23:06:49 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
Everything is pvp, therefore nothing is. You can only classify something as anything provided that there is another thing. If there is only light, there is no light because the concept of light is created to distinguish what it defines from the absense of what it doesnt.

So the more you try to say that everything is one thing, the more you prove that it is not.

"Saying everyone is special is the same as saying no one is."



EVE is essentially a PvP game, you can avoid it, you could sit in a station and do nothing.

Even using the market is a form of PvP.

Why don't you google the meaning of PvP as I'm not sure you really understand the concept.


Yeah, because the results in google are all legit. Right. Half of them says what I am saying, so not a smart idea to pull the google card.

Lets get your idea of using fallacy as means of argument and use the plain old extrapolation to absurdity, shall we ?

So, if all is a form of pvp, I am going now do some pvp, how ?
Gonna put up a new leather pants black and gold, nice boots, that despite the fact that no one sees it, as much as I can try to show it, this is pvp right ? Ofcourse it is. In order to have them ingame devs had to go to the lenght of adding a WHOLE NEW ENGINE to the game that changed nothing in combat mechanics, may not even touch the market, nor it can be even shown off as a form of sick intimidation, but guess what ? It is pvp.
Then I will sit down on the capitains quarters no one can join me, to see a ship spinning and take selfies that wont affect anyone's gameplay, despite the fact that THERE WAS AN ENTIRE CCP DIVISION TO DEVELOP IT, but since it is eve, it is pvp.
Then I will watch tv while I give money to people in order to move their merchandise from a place to another, helping them actually, not being me to face another player in any way, but that is pvp right ?

Then I will let the game marinating while watching tv and my orders fill and I balance it to make new ones, but hey, that is pvp ... right ?

WoW, I never did so much pvp in a game before, despite the fact that I do the same thing in multiple games, only here people make me feel like a real pvp toon. Thanks.

And then I will go to the supermarket violate some people by buying grosseries they would if I didnt, because that is PvP (people vs people), and maybe I pay with my super visa platinum many people wont be able to, and they will be pissed, because that is also pvp. Then I will walk, eventually crossing the green pedestrian light, which is an insult to all the drivers who have to face a red light meanwhile, but hey, still pvp.

I get home and sleep, defying all the people who dont have a home, who cant sleep, and miscelaneous reasons why anyone may consider it an effort to defy someone else.

Good thinking. That may be the reason there is so much conflict there were you all got this kind of culture from.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#88 - 2015-08-08 23:57:43 UTC
^^ Your problem is that you're either unwilling to accept that there is a line between fantasy and reality, probably for trolling reasons; or that you don't know where that line is. Either way, we're discussing Eve, which is clearly fantasy, you're trying to blur the line.

Kindly desist from doing so, you look silly.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Paula Enkhashour
Doomheim
#89 - 2015-08-09 00:19:02 UTC
Again, same principle from the other topic:

If you draw real life feelings of satisfaction from preying on people who cant defend themselves in a game, as your character does not benefit from that, nor it is a mandatory objective of the game, there is no reason for you to do that besides your personal real satisfaction on doing that, so you are doing it by real life ends, ergo, being your real self enjoying it. simple.

You are the ones not understanding the line between what people I am refeering to.

As the chess example, you can play chess with a person you are not drawing feelings of superiority or damage, playing the game in a mental respectful way. If you play chess with someone thinking that "I will show this idiot that he is a piece of **** and make him suffer as the inept he is by winning him miserably", you are a sick person.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#90 - 2015-08-09 01:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
Again, same principle from the other topic:

If you draw real life feelings of satisfaction from preying on people who cant defend themselves in a game, as your character does not benefit from that, nor it is a mandatory objective of the game, there is no reason for you to do that besides your personal real satisfaction on doing that, so you are doing it by real life ends, ergo, being your real self enjoying it. simple.
Preying on those who choose not to use mechanics and social structures to protect themselves often does benefit the gankers character, in loot collected, bounty earned, infamy etc, and yes a sense of personal satisfaction at a job well done. Those self same gankers are unlikely to indulge in such shenanigans in the real world because they know where the line is drawn, those that do step over that line in relation to Eve face disapproval for their actions by their peers and sanction by CCP.

Quote:
You are the ones not understanding the line between what people I am refeering to.

As the chess example, you can play chess with a person you are not drawing feelings of superiority or damage, playing the game in a mental respectful way. If you play chess with someone thinking that "I will show this idiot that he is a piece of **** and make him suffer as the inept he is by winning him miserably", you are a sick person.
There are few sore winners, there are plenty of sore losers.

In chess the rules are very clearly defined, if I can beat another person at chess because I use strategies that use those rules to my advantage I will, if I can absolutely drub them because they're ignorant of the rules, I will; the aim is to win, not come to an amicable truce. That said I would try to educate the person I can drub because of their ignorance, if only to get a better game out of them in the future; the same applies ingame, many PvPers will happily hand out advice if asked.

You may be a sick person if you lose at chess or any other game for that matter, then embark upon a tirade of RL abuse and attempted intimidation because you can't handle losing a game; that's called being a bad sport.
You're not a sick person if you can lose a game, then amicably chat with your opponent and learn from them; that's called being a good sport.

The problem is that people labour under the misconception that high security means absolute security and become overly attached to their pretty spaceships. When they explode they don't ask the person who killed them how to avoid it happening again, instead they behave like a child in the throws of the terrible twos who has had a sharp pointy object taken away from them before they stick it in their own eye. The only things that PvPers give these people, and all they deserve tbh, is antimatter and aneurysms.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#91 - 2015-08-09 01:22:41 UTC
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
as your character does not benefit from that, nor it is a mandatory objective of the game


It's a sandbox. There are no objectives at all, let alone mandatory ones, nor is benefit a requirement to do anything.

I know you hate player freedom, but you really need to learn to accept that it's a founding principle of the game. The next step after that is realizing that you don't belong. The step after that is leaving.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2015-08-09 01:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
"The core feature/design principle of Eve as stated by CCP"
and
"you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept"

are two different concepts.

While the ADVICE of considering the implications of pvp as it is the core game concept is stating that the core game concept is be aware that the mechanics do not provent people from considering every action you take as a form of pvp. The statemente that the core feature/design principle of eve as stated by ccp is pvp means they designed the game with the specific intent to make players engage in one or other form of opposing other players in some way.

The same material you cited also says that pvp is unavoidable, which is conceptually true, but actually it is not. If instead of doing all I do with multiple account I had someone to do what my alts do, for a generous payment, I would be "unpvpable", as people objected to waste time in making station environments and possibly invasion of capitains quarters and assassinations. So if I had only my trading alts, I would be avoiding pvp entirely. While the game itself and the people I employ still pvp, I dont. And when you say so I would be avoiding aspects of the game, I would say, do you know if I want them ? The point is, "pvp avoided".

If everyone avoid pvp, then everyone avoid pvp. That is just a retorical statement, but still true.

If I sub just to play on the test server, I still play, I still enjoy several aspects of the game, and I still avoiding pvp.

There are lots of ways in which I am effectivelly avoiding pvp.

Have you ever heard of marketing ? CCP says eve is a pvp sandbox the same way blizz say WoW is an epic experience and arena net says Guildwars is different from regular mmos. It is a catchy thing people will see if they look for it, but it is not a thing.

I spend years and years in eve with 2 entire accounts (6 chars) never leaving dock, and using alts to haul or lend bonuses not because I need them, but because I earn more money that way. I spend half a year in low, 2 months in WH and 1 month in null, and those alts never had one engagement, nor they could have if someone else wanted.

In a general concept THE EVE UNIVERSE pvp will always happen, because there at least one person looking for a fight. In particular, if a person do not want a fight, for anything, you can just average the market not opposing players in there, not out pricing, just moving stuff around.

If you say that is pvp, it is like saying someone call me a whore, I dont care, and call that a discussion.


For such a long essay, you didn't really say much of value. Marketing is one thing, but what EVE has been for over a decade, and continues to be, proves its PVP nature. You can argue against that all you like, but you'll be wrong every time.


Talking about empty post that doesnt really says nothing.

Let me say what you said in short words: "You wrote too much and you are wrong. Because I say are wrong. And you will always be wrong. Because you are wrong."

I am not discussing there is pvp, and that pvp is an ever present thing. I discuss only that you imply pvp is unavoidable and essential for eve, and you are wrong. me and hundreds of pilots prove you wrong.
Maybe if you get ccp to develop station environment, then you are welcome to come to my quarter and pvp me to death. Until then, pvp will still be avoidable, therefore, not the main concern.


That's not what I said at all, don't strawman me. It doesn't earn you any credibility. You're wrong because EVE is a PVP game. Just because PVP can be avoided, that doesn't make it less of a PVP game. You got it yet? You're wrong because you're making assertions without any evidence, assertions that are not true and demonstrably wrong, as demonstrated by over a decade of actual gameplay.

And this is a gaming forum. If you want to write an essay, go to Nature. Otherwise, make a point, and make it succinct, or at least provide a tl;dr. I don't come here to read essays.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#93 - 2015-08-09 01:29:30 UTC
^^ Oh my how things have changed P

I recall having similar discussions with you, you did have the excuse of being a newbie though.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-08-09 01:30:23 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
^^ Oh my how things have changed P

I recall having similar discussions with you, you did have the excuse of being a newbie though.


Learning how EVE works does wonders to one's grasp on how EVE works.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Paula Enkhashour
Doomheim
#95 - 2015-08-09 01:38:48 UTC
And again ... oh that is what I am saying, you saying what I am saying back to me.

And again... more of those latin words of the other topics but now called upon the guise of cordiality.. ... what is that one ...
Ah, yes ... the latin form of "for reckoning".

Unfortunately, still mean anything.

The fact still is that people get emotional on the forum and start blanting that emotions and psycho satisfaction has nothing to do with it... and you still cant see issue here.

Then despite the fact that the very thread is aimed to imply that eve protects people FROM pvp, that EVE is pvp centric.

And recalling the arguments of culture, popularity and authority to imply it by calling that "it has been said before", "it is said by a lot of people already", and "the devs said it".

It is like my discussions in work issues when you get the old relativity cult when people say non-sense like:

"Einstein was right because relativity says bla bla bla" ...

Is there any kind of impairment that prevents people from understanding that when I am contradicting what someone said or how something was understood, by definition I dont accept what that person said or that thing meant ?

Does that really cant be clear enough ?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#96 - 2015-08-09 01:42:32 UTC
Paula Enkhashour wrote:

Unfortunately, still mean anything.


This is just painful to read.


Quote:

Does that really cant be clear enough ?


Banana.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2015-08-09 01:49:15 UTC
Actually, capiche is Italian, not latin, and it means, "do you understand yet or does it need to be repeated a millionth time for your simple little mind?" Obviously, though, repeating the very basic explanations provided to you thus far will achieve literally nothing, since you fail to be able to grasp very basic explanations. It's either that, or you're trying to deny the nature of EVE. Either way, you're wrong, and attempting to pick at how we explain why you're wrong by calling out perceived fallacies is a fallacy unto itself, because you have yet to actually refute any point made against you.

That being said, I'm sure you have no refutation to offer, hence your efforts to discredit those disagreeing with you instead of addressing our points.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#98 - 2015-08-09 01:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
Is there any kind of impairment that prevents people from understanding that when I am contradicting what someone said or how something was understood, by definition I dont accept what that person said or that thing meant ?

Does that really cant be clear enough ?
Nope, there's no impairment that prevents us from seeing that you disagree with us. The fact that your opinion appears to based upon misunderstanding and ignorance of the nature of Eve, misconceptions about why people act as they do in a fantasy environment, and your apparent inability to distinguish between real and virtual world actions means that we smugly get to tell you that you're wrong.

Edit. Still waiting for the list of the 85% of activities in Eve that you claim aren't PvP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2015-08-09 02:30:24 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Robert Sawyer wrote:
*sigh*
I really do not understand why all of you are praising CODE., a faction that has zero skill in PvP, backed out from the Alliance Tournament and, above all that, prefer to shoot at stuff that can't fire back.
I'm not saying that I'm some sort of PvP prodigy. My killboard's really shabby, but at least I have a few legit kills there.


And what about on mine?

And like it or not, ganking is a form of PVP that requires a high degree of skill, which you'd know if you'd ever tried it. I don't know anyone that didn't FUBAR their first attempt and fail completely, I don't know anyone that hasn't failed a ganks even after getting experience at it, and unlike PVP in lowsec, you ALWAYS lose what you're ganking with. The only place where a gank is not a legit kill is in your own subjective opinion, but it's as legit as any other form of ship combat PVP and the sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll understand why EVE needs it as much as any other PVP.

Killboards speak more to experience to me than actual ability, and based on yours, you have very little PVP experience. At the end of the day, experience is worth a lot more than ability, because you can develop a better understanding of the nature of EVE with more experience, but ability just lets you win more fights. And I'm sorry, but until you've got more experience yourself, you really aren't in any position for your opinion on what is and is not legit PVP to matter to anyone.


And yet CODE guys go on about CONCORD KB whoring even when the Hall Monitor does the majority of the damage... and you know what you guys can shoot back and do...


The percentage of damage done on a target that is going to die anyway, and was always intended to die, is completely irrelevant. You think you've done something amazing by blowing up a ship the pilot intended to lose? You think you bothered them at all?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#100 - 2015-08-09 02:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
From this thread we learn a lot about eve online jargon:

- Competitive PVP: Fight one person with 10 ships, and more competitive if the ship being attacked cant actually fight back

- Elite PVP: People with no clue about combat mechanics or fleet fighting, staying in hisec doing competitive pvp as defined above

- EVE PvP Fit: Fit a ship that can effectivelly lock and fire over another ship of less combative capabilities, and has survivability enough to flee when confronted by a fighting pilot

- EVE PvP Corp: Corporation that lives off of disrupting less experienced people's gameplay to fund their operation

- EVE Online: A pvp space shooter game in which the developers spend A LOT of time and effort making a market, a industry and a resource gathering mechanics just for the amusement of Elite PVP pilots with EVE PvP Fits in a EVE PVP Corp doing competitive PVP


-Funny you should say that. I am Code. I am not a ganker. Yet the only time many of our war targets will fight is with overwhelming odds...yet you criticize the same thing when we do it...why is this?

-Elite PvP..pvp that takes skill and timing, regarless of the skills or lack of skills of the target. We are not here to hold hands, rather shoot ships and have fun doing it.

-Elite PvP fit..any fit for the purpose of PvP that you fit to have a definitive advantage over the other player...this is done by anyone with a clue..why is it an issue for you?

-Eve PvP corp...an entity for the specific purpose of creating content and enjoying space conflict in a game about space conflict..if you choose to be prey, don't blame the hunter, blame yourself.

-Eve online..a game CCP created with the intent of conflict.. and a sandbox where players create said conflict. Industry is there to create ships, pvp is there to create a need for ships. Choosing not to be a pvper does not remove you from the turmoil intended in the game. Risk vs reward is the bottom line. In any war zone, which is what new eden is, EVERYONE must take steps to protect themselves...to do nothing in that regard is laziness and complacency. just because one chooses to mine, or do industry, does not remove them from the risk and turmoil, in fact, it makes them a strategic target.

anything else? Roll

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If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..