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Collective petition about fozziesov

First post First post First post
Author
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#441 - 2015-08-08 08:40:50 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
What response, though? Undocking an alt in a Maulus? You don't have to stop what you're doing. You don't have to form up. It's an Interceptor.
Any response is bad. Back in the day, a single person coming into a system in s crappy frigate going "I'm gonna take your sov lololololololololololol" would be ignored as they are no threat. Now they are as much of a threat to sov as a solo titan is. A response is forced by the bar being so low and worse will result in no conflict in nearly every case as they'll just run away and cloak.

Dersen Lowery wrote:
If somebody really wants to mess with you, they won't send a trollceptor. They'll park a cyno-equipped covops in a safe spot in your system and go AFK.
Which is fine (though I don't like AFK play but that's another matter) because they open a choice. You can leave, ignore them or hide until they go away. Ttrollcepors don't give that choice. Not chasing them means you get reinforced.

Dersen Lowery wrote:
Because CCP is completely changing the way players interact with structures. A POS is an old-style structure that has overstayed its welcome by a decade or so.
So under he new system, when the new style POS comes out, you're expecting them to be able to be taken out by a lone frigate too? In less time than an entire system can be?

Dersen Lowery wrote:
If by conflict you mean that they could be picked off by bomber wings on region or constellation gates, sure. I understand that the Imperium would very much like to defend at its borders.

Convince me that anyone is going to send that many billions of ISK your direction at that warp speed without a fairly high assurance of victory--say, gained by sending a frigate ahead to provoke a response and relay it back. If you were to go and take a system and you had to have one battleship with a fitting crippled to accommodate this link of yours, what would your support fleet look like? What would be a reasonable number of pilots? How much ISK would you be willing to put on the line?
By conflict I mean ships exploding one way or another. That's not going to happen when they can just as easily contest sov with a ship designed to run away. Those players serious about taking sov are attacking with fleets. That should be how contesting sov at al works. Sov is an alliance level activity. It should take a decent amount of investment to do and how much you are willing to put on the line should be dependent on how much you want the system.

Dersen Lowery wrote:
You say that they're running when defenders arrive. Why are you bothering to muster defenders, plural? It's free intelligence for your assailant, and for an interceptor with comparable tank and DPS to a Venture. Its Entosis Link can be trivially hard countered by absolutely anything with a T1 Entosis Link. Undock a Maulus, lock the station, turn on the Entosis Link. Lock the interceptor, turn on damps. Orbit the station at 500. Run a small shield booster if you want to, just in case the interceptor pilot loses his mind and decides to attack with his dozens of DPS.

What am I missing?
They (plural) are running when defenders (plural) arrive. This happens in multiple locations at any one time. Yes, each one only requires one ship to respond but in all the places it happens it require multiple responses.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#442 - 2015-08-08 15:56:10 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Snowmann wrote:
-I suggest we get rid of all current Supers and Titans.
-Give owners some very high percentage of estimated build costs.
Goodbye economy.



Yeah, that could create some high inflationary pressures.

Another option would be to refund majority of the costs via game time, except a Titan would result in well over 5 years game time.
Not too sure how many would be happy about that.

Or just give them PLEX, but the PLEX hoarders would probably hate that.

Maybe 2 yrs free game time, 24 PLEX and some limited BPCs of a Alliance Tournament quality ship that only goes to them would do. :)

Yeah well, anyways... I'm getting carried away here.


I still think what I wrote holds true, but compensating those who currently own them is a complicated issue.
How do you do it in a fair way that doesn't create havoc somewhere else in the game.




Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#443 - 2015-08-08 17:30:22 UTC
Snowmann wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Snowmann wrote:
-I suggest we get rid of all current Supers and Titans.
-Give owners some very high percentage of estimated build costs.
Goodbye economy.



Yeah, that could create some high inflationary pressures.

Another option would be to refund majority of the costs via game time, except a Titan would result in well over 5 years game time.
Not too sure how many would be happy about that.

Or just give them PLEX, but the PLEX hoarders would probably hate that.

Maybe 2 yrs free game time, 24 PLEX and some limited BPCs of a Alliance Tournament quality ship that only goes to them would do. :)

Yeah well, anyways... I'm getting carried away here.


I still think what I wrote holds true, but compensating those who currently own them is a complicated issue.
How do you do it in a fair way that doesn't create havoc somewhere else in the game.






Do you have an idea without CCP giving the players money? Just curious.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#444 - 2015-08-09 01:33:47 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Snowmann wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Snowmann wrote:
-I suggest we get rid of all current Supers and Titans.
-Give owners some very high percentage of estimated build costs.
Goodbye economy.



Yeah, that could create some high inflationary pressures.

Another option would be to refund majority of the costs via game time, except a Titan would result in well over 5 years game time.
Not too sure how many would be happy about that.

Or just give them PLEX, but the PLEX hoarders would probably hate that.

Maybe 2 yrs free game time, 24 PLEX and some limited BPCs of a Alliance Tournament quality ship that only goes to them would do. :)

Yeah well, anyways... I'm getting carried away here.


I still think what I wrote holds true, but compensating those who currently own them is a complicated issue.
How do you do it in a fair way that doesn't create havoc somewhere else in the game.






Do you have an idea without CCP giving the players money? Just curious.


If I personally had to make a suggestion on the matter, I would suggest that CCP (after announcing well beforehand) delete any and all blueprints for them. No more new ones, the existing ones will be the last.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2015-08-09 12:34:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

If I personally had to make a suggestion on the matter, I would suggest that CCP (after announcing well beforehand) delete any and all blueprints for them. No more new ones, the existing ones will be the last.

That's actually not a terrible suggestion.
It would give us all even more reason to cheer those blessed lowsec Russians that are killing supers left and right.
Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
#446 - 2015-08-10 16:29:19 UTC
So, the week as passed and what its gonna be?
Are there any lights on the horizont?
Guess its better to me to unsub...
2 days left for me...
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#447 - 2015-08-10 17:03:20 UTC
Pah Cova wrote:
So, the week as passed and what its gonna be?
Are there any lights on the horizont?
Guess its better to me to unsub...
2 days left for me...


You can contract your stuff to me, and I'll make sure it's put to good use blowing stuff up and being blown up.
Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
#448 - 2015-08-10 17:13:58 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Pah Cova wrote:
So, the week as passed and what its gonna be?
Are there any lights on the horizont?
Guess its better to me to unsub...
2 days left for me...


You can contract your stuff to me, and I'll make sure it's put to good use blowing stuff up and being blown up.


Blow your own stuff, guess its the right way.
You want stuff and isks? There are 2 ways for that...

1 - Work as I do.
2 - Buy plexes and sell them

Its very easy.

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2015-08-10 17:55:52 UTC
Pah Cova wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Pah Cova wrote:
So, the week as passed and what its gonna be?
Are there any lights on the horizont?
Guess its better to me to unsub...
2 days left for me...


You can contract your stuff to me, and I'll make sure it's put to good use blowing stuff up and being blown up.


Blow your own stuff, guess its the right way.
You want stuff and isks? There are 2 ways for that...

1 - Work as I do.
2 - Buy plexes and sell them

Its very easy.



I'm in no need for more stuff. I'm just sad thinking about your stuff not ever getting used properly. Cry
Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
#450 - 2015-08-10 18:01:19 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Pah Cova wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Pah Cova wrote:
So, the week as passed and what its gonna be?
Are there any lights on the horizont?
Guess its better to me to unsub...
2 days left for me...


You can contract your stuff to me, and I'll make sure it's put to good use blowing stuff up and being blown up.


Blow your own stuff, guess its the right way.
You want stuff and isks? There are 2 ways for that...

1 - Work as I do.
2 - Buy plexes and sell them

Its very easy.



I'm in no need for more stuff. I'm just sad thinking about your stuff not ever getting used properly. Cry


Guess you are needing, otherwise you didnt ask me for it.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2015-08-10 19:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Stan
Pah Cova wrote:
Guess you are needing, otherwise you didnt ask me for it.


Not need - I want you stuff, to blow it up. If you don't give it to anybody, could you please blow it all up and send screenshots of the explosions? That'd be just as good as giving it all away, and way better than having it sit in a station belonging to an unsubbed character. Twisted

Anyway, to keep this on topic, here's a reiteration of some changes I think would benefit everybody:

- An activated Entosis Link self-destructs if it is turned off without having successfully captured a node, reinforced a sov structure, or disables/enable a station service. This allows Interceptors to continue to be viable ships for an actual sov attack, and continue to be viable trolls for empty systems, but makes each "run away" sovtroll cost the troller at least 30 million ISK and requires them to refit somewhere if they want to continue.

- A slow passive defense if a particular node/structure isn't under active attack. This would allow defenders to hold sov against trolls without having to Entose multiple command nodes, yet wouldn't be any barrier to an actual attacker. Say, over two to four days the defender wins nodes by default, depending on ADM.
Robert Sawyer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#452 - 2015-08-11 10:11:07 UTC
I started playing EVE Online with the hope of engaging in these huge fleet battles. Now, every time I'm trying to interest myself in this, I just get a sweet offer of Entosis look-out.

The whole fozziesov thing is garbage. The huge power blocs are crumbling and dozens of new alliances are popping up everywhere. And don't get me started on the Entosis Link, that is a troll's ultimate tool.

"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."

Akballah Kassan
Flames Of Chaos
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#453 - 2015-08-11 13:22:00 UTC
Robert Sawyer wrote:


The whole fozziesov thing is garbage. The huge power blocs are crumbling and dozens of new alliances are popping up everywherel.


Wasn't that exactly what Fozziesov was hoping to achieve?
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2015-08-11 13:41:06 UTC
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Robert Sawyer wrote:


The whole fozziesov thing is garbage. The huge power blocs are crumbling and dozens of new alliances are popping up everywherel.


Wasn't that exactly what Fozziesov was hoping to achieve?

Yeah, except all of the crumbling happened before Aegis. What we have now, is blocs that are even more firmly entrenched, because no one in null with the ability to actually unseat them, cares to mess with this godawful new system. What we do have though, is plenty of "runawaaaaaay trollololol made you undock".
The only ones actually losing any space were those who were highly overextended, and they're just not even bothering to contest sovlasering on their unused space.
Pah Cova
Made in Portugal S.A.
#455 - 2015-08-11 17:40:50 UTC
Akballah Kassan wrote:
Robert Sawyer wrote:


The whole fozziesov thing is garbage. The huge power blocs are crumbling and dozens of new alliances are popping up everywherel.


Wasn't that exactly what Fozziesov was hoping to achieve?


Well, guess its not working as intended, new alliances rise and fall.
This is not about pvp, what we see in eve long time ago are only ganking, and ganking is not pvp, pvpeers use to say that they do pvp, but what they do its just ganking, 10 vs 60 or more, that is not pvp, however there are some players who like to do the real pvp, thats why new sov mechanics are not working properly, new alliances can conquer systems but cant hold them, they are going to be hotdropped until they leave, so small entities its just a mirage.
Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#456 - 2015-08-12 08:06:05 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

If I personally had to make a suggestion on the matter, I would suggest that CCP (after announcing well beforehand) delete any and all blueprints for them. No more new ones, the existing ones will be the last.

That's actually not a terrible suggestion.
It would give us all even more reason to cheer those blessed lowsec Russians that are killing supers left and right.


That is a good suggestion, in conjunction with the new Sov changes.

Though I would still suggest that once the last of any racial type is destroyed, it would return to the game as a unique item, as I had suggested.

It may take 10 years to get anywhere near that point, but it could be a good first step.

Jeff Kione
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#457 - 2015-08-12 20:10:38 UTC
My idea to fix sov trolling is two-fold:

1. Move the notification to the sov holder to earlier in the cycle (half way through, the beginning, whatever).
2. Increase the cycle time for the initial assault.

If you're going to attack someone in a trollceptor, they'll have notice and you'll be a sitting duck for longer. Problem solved.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#458 - 2015-08-12 20:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Stan
Jeff Kione wrote:
My idea to fix sov trolling is two-fold:

1. Move the notification to the sov holder to earlier in the cycle (half way through, the beginning, whatever).
2. Increase the cycle time for the initial assault.

If you're going to attack someone in a trollceptor, they'll have notice and you'll be a sitting duck for longer. Problem solved.


Nah. The defenders should just have pilots in their system. If the system doesn't have pilots in it during its vulnerability, the defenders deserve to lose their system.

-- Eli (who is happy to hear so many entities upset they can't defend their systems in absentia, and further is happy to hear so many entities find being on-grid with a hostile Interceptor boring as they are better suited for living in highsec where they don't have to worry about such things and can go back to their carebearing ways without worry albeit at reduced income levels, not like I am interested in claiming sov for myself but for the health of the game in general I believe it's necessary for those people to be booted out of their current sov playstyles. As I told Lucas - I hope their empires crumble to the ground around them.)

ps - oh, and regarding supers... If Drifter battleships are adjusted so as to rove around sovnull and use Entosis links against sov structures, that'd certainly make supers more necessary as even carriers can have difficulty tanking them.
Jeff Kione
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#459 - 2015-08-13 13:48:40 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Nah. The defenders should just have pilots in their system. If the system doesn't have pilots in it during its vulnerability, the defenders deserve to lose their system.

-- Eli (who is happy to hear so many entities upset they can't defend their systems in absentia, and further is happy to hear so many entities find being on-grid with a hostile Interceptor boring as they are better suited for living in highsec where they don't have to worry about such things and can go back to their carebearing ways without worry albeit at reduced income levels, not like I am interested in claiming sov for myself but for the health of the game in general I believe it's necessary for those people to be booted out of their current sov playstyles. As I told Lucas - I hope their empires crumble to the ground around them.).


I don't disagree that you shouldn't be able to keep your space if you aren't using it. But if you set your vulnerability to your prime time, then your solution is to what, always leave some people behind to defend your system if you want to go on roams? Make sure you have alts that can be logged in and defend against a lone interceptor?
Snowmann
Arrow Industries
#460 - 2015-08-14 05:54:22 UTC
Jeff Kione wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Nah. The defenders should just have pilots in their system. If the system doesn't have pilots in it during its vulnerability, the defenders deserve to lose their system.

-- Eli (who is happy to hear so many entities upset they can't defend their systems in absentia, and further is happy to hear so many entities find being on-grid with a hostile Interceptor boring as they are better suited for living in highsec where they don't have to worry about such things and can go back to their carebearing ways without worry albeit at reduced income levels, not like I am interested in claiming sov for myself but for the health of the game in general I believe it's necessary for those people to be booted out of their current sov playstyles. As I told Lucas - I hope their empires crumble to the ground around them.).


I don't disagree that you shouldn't be able to keep your space if you aren't using it. But if you set your vulnerability to your prime time, then your solution is to what, always leave some people behind to defend your system if you want to go on roams? Make sure you have alts that can be logged in and defend against a lone interceptor?



No large org, Alliance or Corp, Null Sec or Low Sec, that I have ever been in has ever had every single person online and active go on a roam.
That normally happened in med sized Corps or very small Alliances, and on rare occasions.

I'm not trying to suggest that that is the rule, just seems to be the norm.