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Official Rookie Griefing rules have been changed

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gfldex
#1 - 2015-08-07 15:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: gfldex
EVE Online > Gameplay & Features EULA, ToS, Policies > Rookie Griefing

Yesterday the section Sisters of EVE Epic Arc was changed from stating one systems name to the now much more precise:

Quote:
Given the variety of systems this arc can take place in, players are asked to refrain from any form of griefing to rookie players (30 days old or less) in mission sites associated with the arc. Such griefing involves but is not limited to; destroying, stealing or ransoming mission critical items.

Disregarding warnings to cease such behavior from authorized CCP personnel is considered to be in violation of section 6 of the Terms of Service. Any player who violates the Terms of Service may be subject to disciplinary action.


Please help to ease the workload of our beloved GMs be refraining to contract Dagan to new players. Trial accounts can't take the contract anyway nor do they have the ISK to pay 5MISK Dagan is worth (the latter is a lie).

It's a bit sad to see one of the best ways to get in touch with new players tossed out the window though.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#2 - 2015-08-07 15:15:57 UTC
gfldex wrote:
EVE Online > Gameplay & Features EULA, ToS, Policies > Rookie Griefing

Yesterday the section Sisters of EVE Epic Arc was changed from stating one systems name to the now much more precise:

Quote:
Given the variety of systems this arc can take place in, players are asked to refrain from any form of griefing to rookie players (30 days old or less) in mission sites associated with the arc. Such griefing involves but is not limited to; destroying, stealing or ransoming mission critical items.

Disregarding warnings to cease such behavior from authorized CCP personnel is considered to be in violation of section 6 of the Terms of Service. Any player who violates the Terms of Service may be subject to disciplinary action.


Please help to ease the workload of our beloved GMs be refraining to contract Dagan to new players. Trial accounts can't take the contract anyway nor do they have the ISK to pay 5MISK Dagan is worth (the latter is a lie).

It's a bit sad to see one of the best ways to get in touch with new players tossed out the window though.

Luckily we can still kill them utilizing wardec mechanics. Also if you wish to get in contact with newbies come to bazadod in aridia and get into the freda-something corp and teach them the way eve can be in high sec Twisted

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#3 - 2015-08-07 16:00:06 UTC
The end of an era. RIP Dagan trolling.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Black Pedro
Mine.
#4 - 2015-08-07 17:21:58 UTC
Strange that CCP is ignoring thier own data which argues that players who engage in legal or illegal PvP during those first 30 days are more likely to stay with the game.

It's a shame these bubble-wrapped rookies will have no chance to connect with other players in the sandbox and will have to make thier decision to subscribe or not just on the decade-old PvE currently on offer. I can't imagine that is going to convert as many trial players to subscribers as those who are lucky enough to experience more exciting player-driven content

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
gfldex
#5 - 2015-08-07 17:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: gfldex
Black Pedro wrote:
Strange that CCP is ignoring thier own data which argues that players who engage in legal or illegal PvP during those first 30 days are more likely to stay with the game.


CCP Games is not a one man show. There are different mindsets and different problems to different groups. The new ruling may lead to a lightened workload for GMs. Something I have to agree with having waited for the GMs to get back to me for weeks a few years ago. What is distressing me is that GMs have the power to decide that by themselves. If we all would be allowed to reduce our workloads nothing would get done!

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#6 - 2015-08-07 18:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriel Malakai
Frankly, I see this as a win for the PVP community, as we now have a finite definition of what a rookie is. Prior to this ruling, what constituted a rookie was solely at the discretion of the GM overlooking a petition. With this in place, players are now free to hunt down and engage non-rookie players (31+ days old) without fear of recrimination.

It's a damn shame this happened years after the previous rulings killed the rather vibrant PVP community that lived in Arnon.
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#7 - 2015-08-07 18:56:14 UTC
I have quite a lot of Dagans locked in a box in Arnon, along with one of Socratic's corpses, dressed in a Janet Reger basque.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
Pax Deltari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-08-07 19:13:01 UTC
So many tears from so many people who are sad they can't kill defenseless bunnies anymore.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#9 - 2015-08-07 20:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Black Pedro wrote:
Strange that CCP is ignoring thier own data which argues that players who engage in legal or illegal PvP during those first 30 days are more likely to stay with the game.

It's a shame these bubble-wrapped rookies will have no chance to connect with other players in the sandbox and will have to make thier decision to subscribe or not just on the decade-old PvE currently on offer. I can't imagine that is going to convert as many trial players to subscribers as those who are lucky enough to experience more exciting player-driven content

So there's different ways you can look at this.

One way is this:

Characters less than 30 days old are rookies. Characters more than 30 days old are not. This is a finite and unambiguous definition of what a rookie is, which would be an improvement.

Previously when there was a change to the rookie system rules a large number of players were annoyed that CCP insisted that it was okay to do whatever you want to non-rookies, but refused to provide any kind of definition whatsoever as to who was considered a rookie, which meant whether or not you got a warning or ban for shooting someone in a rookie system literally depended on the subjective opinion of a GM and really cool stuff like people getting warnings for killing 5 year old players in marauders while they do the SOE epic arc in Arnon for the standings boost.

An actual definition is beneficial because it gives GMs a clear way to establish whether or not a peition about alleged rookie griefing is legitimate or not, allowing them to respond to petitions more quickly, more correctly. It would also allow players a means to know who they are or are not allowed to screw with, previously all you could do was guess.

If this is how they intend to enforce this rules change then it's entirely positive because it should decrease GM workload and allow players to blow up non-rookie players in proximity to rookie players without fear of getting banned because someone vindictively filed a petition because they got baited by a ninja and lost a T3. Everyone wins.

Or you can see it as an expansion of the rookie system rules to apply to more situations, which would be dumb, because the quantity of players killed in highsec while considered rookies is statistically tiny and if they do they're actually more likely to be retained than otherwise. It would also potentially increase GM workload.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#10 - 2015-08-07 20:50:58 UTC
Maybe we won't see as many Mackinaws in rookie sectors, now that they're fair game.

A signature :o
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-08-07 21:02:54 UTC
Adriel Malakai wrote:
Frankly, I see this as a win for the PVP community, as we now have a finite definition of what a rookie is. Prior to this ruling, what constituted a rookie was solely at the discretion of the GM overlooking a petition. With this in place, players are now free to hunt down and engage non-rookie players (31+ days old) without fear of recrimination.

It's a damn shame this happened years after the previous rulings killed the rather vibrant PVP community that lived in Arnon.


I see it as a gigantic ban sink. What if I dont know the player is doing a story arc? Does this mean I now have to (in addition to scanning down the freakin site):

1) Verify player age: Ok, not that tough. Just look at birthday. Meh.

2) Research what the **** they are doing: Im not a pro ganker / mission flipper. I dont know exactly what mission they are on by the room/rats. Now, while I sit in his site, im supposed to google the damn thing too? Thats terribad.

3) Assuming he passes the age check, or does not pass the age check, and is running a different mission than the epic arcs, am I NOW free to steal his loot?

Just one more nerf, right? Just one more step before new players magically become ready for PVP. Because after mission arcs.

Brilliant.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Paula Enkhashour
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-08-07 23:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Paula Enkhashour
If you really read all the http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/ you will know you are making a lot of concept errors in those statements throughout this thread, that most of you are lucky most people who plays this game and have their gameplay disrupted also dont read those terms.

- You are not permitted to harass any player, no matter how old they are. The WARNING regarding one way of harassing is not a ruling that harassing is resumed to that, and the policies still say that harassment is prohibited and may lead to consequences regarding the infractors ability to enjoy the game, aka, ban.

There is however the CCP instrument of legal harassment, which is the Wardec. THEN you are free.
Paranoid Loyd
#13 - 2015-08-07 23:13:54 UTC
Look out we got a new space lawyer in town. Roll

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2015-08-07 23:25:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Adriel Malakai
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
If you really read all the http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/ you will know you are making a lot of concept errors in those statements throughout this thread, that most of you are lucky most people who plays this game and have their gameplay disrupted also dont read those terms.

- You are not permitted to harass any player, no matter how old they are. The WARNING regarding one way of harassing is not a ruling that harassing is resumed to that, and the policies still say that harassment is prohibited and may lead to consequences regarding the infractors ability to enjoy the game, aka, ban.

There is however the CCP instrument of legal harassment, which is the Wardec. THEN you are free.


Harassment and mission flipping, ganking, bumping, etc are very different things.

Leto Thule wrote:
I see it as a gigantic ban sink. What if I dont know the player is doing a story arc? Does this mean I now have to (in addition to scanning down the freakin site):

1) Verify player age: Ok, not that tough. Just look at birthday. Meh.

2) Research what the **** they are doing: Im not a pro ganker / mission flipper. I dont know exactly what mission they are on by the room/rats. Now, while I sit in his site, im supposed to google the damn thing too? Thats terribad.

3) Assuming he passes the age check, or does not pass the age check, and is running a different mission than the epic arcs, am I NOW free to steal his loot?

Just one more nerf, right? Just one more step before new players magically become ready for PVP. Because after mission arcs.

Brilliant.


In some sense, it is a public nerf, but in many others, this is potentially a removal of restrictions. Any kind of mission based aggression or baiting revolving the SOE Epic Arc has been handled with very heavy hands over the last several years. Officially, it was only stated that rookies (which were undefined) were off limits in Arnon. In reality, people were banned and/or warned for characters that were blatantly not rookies, but were flipped/baited in Arnon. Furthermore, the GMs stated that aggression against rookies (again, undefined) anywhere within the SOE Epic Arc was strongly frowned upon and would likely result in a warning and/or ban.

With this change, all you really need to do is follow the rule of thumb most of the old Arnon community used back in the "good old days" - check their age to see if they're over 30 days. Assuming this is reliably followed by GMs, this is a good thing in that older players are now up for grabs again.

The biggest problem with this is a precedence of a hard "no touching" period for new characters. Assuming it's contained to this arbitrary line, things are probably ok. If they continue pushing the line, it'll be a very bad thing.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#15 - 2015-08-08 00:00:20 UTC
This all assumes that the GMs will actually enforce the rules rather than "the spirit of the rule" aka whatever is convenient for them
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#16 - 2015-08-08 00:07:49 UTC
harassment is not the use of any legitimate in game tactics. AKA you can kill anybody you want anywhere you want for any reason you want utilizing any means you want so long as they are not 30 days old, are not at war with you and are in an exemption area

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-08-08 02:06:08 UTC
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
If you really read all the http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/ you will know you are making a lot of concept errors in those statements throughout this thread, that most of you are lucky most people who plays this game and have their gameplay disrupted also dont read those terms.

- You are not permitted to harass any player, no matter how old they are. The WARNING regarding one way of harassing is not a ruling that harassing is resumed to that, and the policies still say that harassment is prohibited and may lead to consequences regarding the infractors ability to enjoy the game, aka, ban.

There is however the CCP instrument of legal harassment, which is the Wardec. THEN you are free.


You literally have no idea what you are talking about. Please give us your definition of harassment.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#18 - 2015-08-08 03:32:10 UTC
Or we could just skip that and move directly to the popcorn.

As a mission flipper, part time seal clubber, and general all around wartard I really don't see how this is going to change or limit my prey selection to be honest.

" in mission sites associated with the arc "

This is something that's going to come up pretty rarely as I, and I'd assume most other mission flippers already a) avoid the rookie systems, and b) don't generally waste our time scanning down frigates and dessies running missions. I don't like robbing poor people... spending more on ammo than I'll get from looting their wreck leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

If I am subjecting myself to the misery of trying to scan one of the little bastards down it's because they're a war target.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Yourmoney Mywallet
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-08-08 05:49:09 UTC
Paula Enkhashour wrote:
If you really read all the http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/ you will know you are making a lot of concept errors in those statements throughout this thread, that most of you are lucky most people who plays this game and have their gameplay disrupted also dont read those terms.

- You are not permitted to harass any player, no matter how old they are. The WARNING regarding one way of harassing is not a ruling that harassing is resumed to that, and the policies still say that harassment is prohibited and may lead to consequences regarding the infractors ability to enjoy the game, aka, ban.

There is however the CCP instrument of legal harassment, which is the Wardec. THEN you are free.

Paula Enkhashour
World Traders Guild

Traders Guild

Guild



gb2wow n00b
gfldex
#20 - 2015-08-08 11:28:21 UTC
After pondering the problem for a while I found what was really worrying me about the new ruling.

Quote:
Such griefing involves but is not limited to


Let's say I recruit new players in Arnon while being at war. New player undocks and gets explodified by some enemy. That will cause the new player grief and he runs off to find comfort in seeking counsel with a GM. In my books that qualifies as "not limited to". So one who recruits in any Arc agent systems (that's about 10 or so) better not engage with a char younger then 31 days.

Another thing that would be "not limited to" would be to tell a new player about the riches of lowsec. Noob rushed off to partake in getting rich and gets explodified by some ebil piwat. That is causing the noob grief and he runs off to find comfort ...

Looks like the GM in question opened a completely new class of wormcans. I would even go so far to say that the GMs don't understand why grief play used to be fine in EVE Online while harassment is not.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
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