Market Discussions

I was mulling over an idea for an options exchange which would allow trading of calls and puts on certain market items, and while I am convinced it is potentially workable, trust will be a major issue. To provide assurance to options buyers, mutually trusted third parties will be needed to guarantee performance on the options. This got me thinking about trusted third parties in general, and the risks associated with using them.

There are several players in EVE who are widely considered to be trustworthy. Let's assume for the moment that they are completely honest and reliable, and willing to hold assets for an extended period of time, as is currently the practice for "bond" collateral. What about risks not associated with honesty? What happens if the third party drops dead? Is there a contingency for someone to take over their accounts and honor their obligations? Would such an arrangement even be EULA compliant? Is there any insurance available to mitigate this risk?

And whatever level of risk might be associated with a key individual acting as third party, it seems to me that a group of individuals with shared responsibility, a "trusted corporation," would be even worse, given EVE corporation mechanics and past history.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on trusted third parties in general, and how you deal with third party risk.

Yes, I think myself and others have proven the trusted corp approach to be flawed.


I've used this method to steal corps from people and perpetrate corp thefts before. You should not trust GMs when it comes to security.

Using the share system to do the same is also flawed.

Maybe after the corp roles have been iterated (CCP said they were working on it) the situation will be less bleak?

There's no risk if you chose the right 3rd party

In the event of me getting run over by a bus - sorry my will says all assets are donated to CCP in the next PLEX4GOOD charity event! (not really, if I get run over, there's no-one touching assets I have, hold for you, or promised to others - unless CCP steps in in which case I'd happily have them use it all for P4G).

I'm happy and honored to assist in securing things for pilots, with that I would (sadly) have to view it in the way of me passing, sorry it may be a loss (Re: CCP) - I just have no other way to guarantee your safety and security as a 3rd party.

Even if I were to say that in the event of me passing X, Y or Z would gain the right to assets I hold, I still wouldn't be able to ensure that they do keep the promise of returning/securing said assets. Hence I can only trust myself. And with that. Assets are gone, unless CCP deem it worthy to return or use for P4G.

Plus the risk of me getting run over by a bus is tiny, since I'm a lonely dweller living in my mom's basement and I haven't seen the sunlight since 2005

/c

I appreciate the responses.


Thank you for your service. Good teachers are our only hope for a better tomorrow.


I want the cachet afforded by a squeaky-clean, ultra-reliable third party. But I hope to have a large number of transactions, and I can't imagine someone with those credentials committing to the kind of menial, repetitive tasks needed at a price I can afford.

Maybe the answer is a kind of performance bond, where I would post one sum with a third party, who could then guarantee my contracts, limited of course by the amount of the bond.


You would certainly be a top choice for securing my transactions, but how much workload do you really want to take on? Have you ever done anything like the performance bond I mentioned, covering multiple transactions over time? Any suggestions for inspiring public trust in a new venture by a relatively unknown player?

I know there is no quick path to positive reputation (and perhaps not any path that leads to the level you have reached). That's not what I meant.

I don't think trust will get me very far in today's EVE climate. More likely I will have to, as nearly as possible, eliminate the need for my customers to trust me.

I don't know with what he travels but grendell travels a lot .

I personally would trust Angelica Everstar as a third party with 20b (an amount that would seriously hurt me to lose) as an addition to the list you provided. There's a few people I would trust as third parties with ten figure but not eleven figure amounts (Loyalanon and most of the CODE. leadership, Cheese Crackers, Maxx Run and a few other individuals).

But really, third party work is unstable, because if you are honest as a 3rd party, you will be undercut by rep grinders that want to be the next third party in order to facilitate 3 or 4 supercap thefts. 3rd party fees are not high enough to justify them being honest unless they have a personal commitment to honesty that goes beyond the character to the RL player.

Dishonesty is higher EV than honesty. Mr Bobby in this thread can no doubt attest to that - he made maybe 0.05T from his legitimate business, and about 0.6T from the day he cashed in all that credibility.

This was a very pleasant surprise to read

I have NO wish to become 3rd party anymore. Talked too much to Chribba, Grendell and VV to have any wish of that any more

But down the line, I might start doing long term investments in the same still as Grendell used to do, as it would allow us to cover more ground.

For now, we will likely just stick with our small bonds