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Reduce Super Build Costs

Author
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-08-06 16:51:34 UTC
Rowells wrote:
"lowering the bar would only hurt a smaller group"

Is that what these people ar e trying to say? really?


Well it probably would of been true without the jump change since you would be capable of helicopter dicking anyone's POS producing a super/titan.

Now it's not really the case.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#22 - 2015-08-06 17:30:18 UTC
A super in every garage huh? You might want to think that through a bit more.

There is a version of what you're saying that might make some sense, that is, reducing their build cost AND their abilities at the same time. Make them just an incremental upgrade from caps, not a big leap up. Combined with letting them dock.

The fundamental problem with them right now is that they have no role in the game that justifies their cost - at least not in nullsec, where bubbles and TIDI make them very risky to use. They are seeing more use in low-sec, since low-sec entities are less afraid of a drop from us, or one of the other null powers.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2015-08-06 17:38:15 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Rowells wrote:
"lowering the bar would only hurt a smaller group"

Is that what these people ar e trying to say? really?


Well it probably would of been true without the jump change since you would be capable of helicopter dicking anyone's POS producing a super/titan.

Now it's not really the case.

Tell that to everyone else here.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#24 - 2015-08-07 05:48:50 UTC
Your solution tp superblobbing is to make supers cheap enough that you can ACTUALLY USE THEM AS A LINE DOCTERINE?

"guys i am going to need you all to reship into nyxxes our spies tell us their wyvern docterine uses EM drones, we we want to plug that resist hole a little. Everyone reship into nyxxes"
Anthar Thebess
#25 - 2015-08-07 09:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
FireFrenzy wrote:
Your solution tp superblobbing is to make supers cheap enough that you can ACTUALLY USE THEM AS A LINE DOCTERINE?

"guys i am going to need you all to reship into nyxxes our spies tell us their wyvern docterine uses EM drones, we we want to plug that resist hole a little. Everyone reship into nyxxes"


Think about how epic this will be.

Currently supers act like old capitals.
People use dozen of titans to reinforce towers , they are safer than dreads ( no siege) , immune to ewar, and have tons of EHP.

There is no easy solution.
Best one ?

Remove all supers, nerf capital remote reps , negate ewar invulnerability , reduce EHP.
Every one know about this , but CCP don't move in this direction.

If we cannot manage current super capital numbers, that just grow - make them more available.
They cannot dock, and don't make them dock in citadels.

Small groups all around eve will get supers , start to use them in bigger numbers.

Look what nerft to jump range did in lowsec, capital super powers lose ships to lowsec people without a hope to save them.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#26 - 2015-08-07 12:04:47 UTC
Lucius Kalari wrote:
If anything, supers and titans should have build costs increased by 5x at least.


No no no no no no. Hell no.

What that would do is the opposite of what I explained in my first post, which is make super supremacy be purely about a blocks economic power which, as we already know, creates a snowball effect where the richest are the only ones who can field supers and therefore the ones who can hold the field (and sov) most effectively and become EVEN richer.

Making them cheaper is absolutely the way to go (save from removing them all together) but like someone said, they could do with having their abilities pulled back to make them much easier to kill.

The more they die, the harder it is to accumulate an indomitable fleet whether rich or poor. The cheaper they are the easier they are to replace, rich or poor. Just like someone said they'd hand them out like skittles and thats not a bad thing if they aren't an 'apex force' and are counterable.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2015-08-07 12:19:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Small groups all around eve will get supers , start to use them in bigger numbers.

And this will improve the game because?.. Dude, you are literally saying "less people will fly one of those 400 ships and more will start using that 1 ship and it's good".

Anthar Thebess wrote:
Look what nerft to jump range did in lowsec, capital super powers lose ships to lowsec people without a hope to save them.

I don't see how it's even related. So lowsec closet supercap owners started to log them in and dunk each other now that they aren't hotdropped every time... And that has anything to do with your suggestion how?.. Mind you, jump bridges were as suffocating for "small guy content" as dropping supers.

Your suggestion literally rides on some weird "coolness" factor. "Supercaps are cool, supercap battles are better!"
Well, I don't see it. Meanwhile, by lowering their price you promote usage of now cost-efficient powerful ship over many others, reducing diversity of the game and fleet battles even more. You still promote absolutely unfun way they are handled (as in: don't log in unless you want to do particular thing and nothing else) that also kills diversity of gameplay process as a whole.

What is there to gain at all? It won't close the gap between "big guy" and "small guy" (already covered), it won't diversify and improve gameplay, it won't do a thing expect creating terminal phase of "get most of your guys into FOTM ship"... So?
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#28 - 2015-08-07 17:32:22 UTC
Just as, "trash in, trash out", so goes, "zero thought in, crappy idea comes out".

spend less time trying to create new game mechanics and more time thinking about the outcomes of those ideas.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Deadtired
Proxy Gallore
#29 - 2015-08-09 21:56:46 UTC
My personal solution to Supers as they stand is to refocus them as Capacitor Warfare boats. Them currently being EWAR immune repping machines makes them extremely hard to counter. However if they were moved to be more offensive than defensive they would still be useful and more of them would die. Basically remove/decimate their rep bonuses and replace them with Nuet/Nos range/amount bonuses. Maybe some cap transfer bonuses as well but make their offensive ability better.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2015-08-10 05:45:03 UTC
Deadtired wrote:
My personal solution to Supers as they stand is to refocus them as Capacitor Warfare boats. Them currently being EWAR immune repping machines makes them extremely hard to counter. However if they were moved to be more offensive than defensive they would still be useful and more of them would die. Basically remove/decimate their rep bonuses and replace them with Nuet/Nos range/amount bonuses. Maybe some cap transfer bonuses as well but make their offensive ability better.

Bhaals can already demolish almost any capacitor in one touch. Upsize that and there will be a problem to ships of any size.

Besides, it makes little sense to introduce almost as much neut boats as there's already in this game.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#31 - 2015-08-10 07:31:25 UTC
The reason big, powerful corps and alliances have so many big scary things is simple: they have the organization and the industry to put that many on the field, and the skillpoints to fly them. Nothing short of one of these big corps/alliances falling apart will change that.

A signature :o

Deadtired
Proxy Gallore
#32 - 2015-08-10 22:07:23 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Deadtired wrote:
My personal solution to Supers as they stand is to refocus them as Capacitor Warfare boats. Them currently being EWAR immune repping machines makes them extremely hard to counter. However if they were moved to be more offensive than defensive they would still be useful and more of them would die. Basically remove/decimate their rep bonuses and replace them with Nuet/Nos range/amount bonuses. Maybe some cap transfer bonuses as well but make their offensive ability better.

Bhaals can already demolish almost any capacitor in one touch. Upsize that and there will be a problem to ships of any size.

Besides, it makes little sense to introduce almost as much neut boats as there's already in this game.


Bhaals create a much more dynamic gameplay situation than what we currently have.
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