EVE General Discussion

Some way to steal would be good, same as in Combat sigs.

1. No. Once you activate a can by hacking/analysing it, no-one else can use their modules on it and you are also blocked from accessing cans until you, personally, unlock them. So a claimed can cannot be accessed at all.

2. Yes. That's the essence of the demand for s-flagging. He wants to go back to the very brief anomalous period when we had a combination of loot spew (an almost universally detested game mechanic) and S-flagging for accessing those spew cans so he can pick and choose which targets to go after (and have every advantage against), rather than go find fights in less restricted areas of space where he can't dictate the terms of the engagement.

3. Not particularly, since the content is almost worthless. It might be good for babbys first exploration, before the character has the skills to take on combat sites, but that's about it. This also puts #2 in a different light…

Historically, you couldn't really do it either since you didn't own the cans to begin with, and while there might be some argument for allowing multiple competing hacks, that's pretty much as it was before too: whomever got to the can first got the loot unless their skills were appalling. The main difference is that it used to be a matter of SP-skills; now it's a matter of “not clicking poorly” skills. The actual PvP element of these sites — finding them first and being the first to reach a given can — are the same as always, and theft and combat are now back to where they've pretty much always been.

Conceivably, but you have to remember what type of content we're talking about. This is a harvesting (mini)profession and doesn't work any differently in terms of theft than its cousins mining and salvaging. There, too, ownership is immediate and the only way to steal anything is to blow up whomever beat you to the goods and hope there's anything left in the wreck.

Yes, you need to remember that, as you currently aren't.
As to what is conceivable? Thats not really for you to decide.


False.

In mining the resource can be accessed concurrently.
In salvaging everyone can salvage concurrently.
In combat sigs everyone can access the drop.

In exploration, only one person can access the resource.

So you are completely wrong.


Your notion could "conceivably" work, if asteroids/ICE, data/relic cores could also be blown up, as can for example the ship with loot on it in a combat sig. But they can't, so it isn't.

I do think you should be able to open other people's hacked containers though. Sounds like content to me.

Actually, yes, it is. Banditry is a heavily advertised form of gameplay for this game, and there's no reason why an explorer can't do their hacking in a ship capable of killing bandits, especially considering most ninja looters are going to be in ninja ships. Which are usually no more than a T1 attack frigate with room for cargo. It's not about 'easy kills', it's about the dog-eat-dog nature of EVE.

As expected from someone who is in Two LOSSES minimum. You guys just plain suck at the game. Looks like FW is too hard for you and decided to do exploration.

PS all your problem is in your head.

Nope. You're just confusing two completely separate modes of competition.

…but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about theft, which isn't possible in any of the harvesting professions. So again, conceivably, a way to steal would be good, but that would be out of character compared to the other content of the same category. Ownership is immediate; theft is not an option — this is consistent across all harvesting.

It was your notion, remember? And yes, that's pretty much the reason why it doesn't work that way.

There is already some competition on-site. It's just not centred on the hacking mini-game.

There is no reason why some more competition on HS mechanics in terms of exploration would not be a good thing (doesnt affect other sec, cos they have different systemic rules of engagement)

As is already shown and echoed by many other posters, HS exploration loot is worth piddly squat to begin with.
Inorder to improve the quality of the loot, the relative difficulty of aquiring them needs to be adjusted.

The way to do that, is by including more systemic competition in the actual mechanics of the nodes and getting loot from them.
The volume of players actually engaged in it is a secondary result of these factors, as is the value of the loot a result of other changes saturating the market.

As I pointed out, with all other harvesting mechanics, the resource is universally accessible concurrently with other players.
Everyone can mine the same asteroid.
Everyone can salvage the same wreck.
Everyone can loot/destroy the combat sig ship.

In exploration, the competition is superficial and amounts only to who reaches the node first.
The node becomes their sole and uninfringible property, which goes against the grain of EVE ethics.

Tippia has attempted to falsely misdirect the notion of "theft" here as to taking something from someones cargo hold.
That is not the issue here.
IF you mine that rock and the ore makes it to your hold, then its yours.
(If someone else completes their cycle in the last bit before you, you get nothing).
IF you salvage more successfully and the wreck is translated into your hold, then its yours.
(Deoends on RNG and salvage related skills/builds).
IF you manage to reach the combat sig wreck first, then its yours.
(Depending on whether opponent does not destroy it, or goes suspect to steal it, or you doing that yourself)

However in exploration, all you need to do, is reach it.
Pretty weak competition mechanic right there.


The equivalent in mining or salvaging would be that as soon as you engage salvage/mining the asteroid/wreck becomes exclusively yours, which is obviously not the case and would be universally rejected if anyone even suggested it. In combat sigs the ship would be unlootable by anyone who didnt destroy it. Hell no.

Adding more elements of healthy competition is always a good thing.

Despite Tippias claims, I never referred to anything as "anomalous", nor was there anything anomalous about how the node mechanics have been changed. No idea where she got that from. Either she is confused or is trying to deliberately ambiguate posters positions together in an attempt to generalize and avoid other specific arguments from each individual..

I am not beholden to what OP is asking for.
I am not him. You are not him.

And you are misrepresenting him.

He hss not asked for combat rights. Going suspect is NOT a combat right for the suspect. Only for others to engage him.
Im surprised youndidnt know that.

He asked for a way to compete for the loot outside of simply reaching the node first.

Nor is exploration universally a "newbie centered profession", as you generalize.
Its universally practiced by players old and new. The only exception here being how it happens in HS due to a different set of rules of engagement.

Moving the goal posts is not conducive to construcrive discussion.

I amply demonstrated that your claim that other harvesting professions are the same was false.
Miners/Salvagers/CombatSig all have competition mechanics beyond simply reaching a node and tapping it.

There never was an "anomalous" period. That has been only your term, from your mouth.

There was a sequence of changes which ran through different iterations of intent, each of which worked as intended for the time they existed.

And yes, your attempt to define "theft" as something that happens once the loot is in your hold, is completely besides the point.
Nobody has raised issue with the loot that makes it into a pilots hold being theirs and that standard rules of engagement to take it from there apply as per security status.

This is about the competition that takes place inorder to get it into your hold in the firs place, which as I demonstrated on other professions is far more involved than just reaching it and tapping it, as is the case uniquely in relic/data sites.

The equivalent would be that an asteroid/wreck becomes SOLELY YOURS the second you activate laser/salvager on it, and a combat sig SOLELY YOURS the second you destroy it. The difference is that in every thing else ITS NOT YOURS until its in your hold. Whereas in relic/data its SOLELY YOURS the second you begin to analyze it.

The only consistent way to 'compete for the node' would be to able to both play the minigame at the same time also.

However that turns EVE into a clickspam twitch game of how fast can you click nodes and what your ping is, which is not what EVE is about.
Being able to loot the can would be even sillier, as that would be even more a twitch fest ping dependant game.

So, please propose a non loot spew, non twitch/ping fest mechanic. And it 'might' have some merit if you can actually devise a suitable mechanic.