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Trying to understand Rat Aggro mechanics (especially vs. Drones)
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Bicc Bum
4S Corporation
The Initiative.
#1 - 2015-08-03 11:20:17 UTC
Does anyone know of or have an explanation of how NPC Rat Aggro works? I have noticed a distinct inability to rat in ways that I remember being able to in the past. From searching this forum and other places I am reading a lot of conjecture and no actual "Wiki article" or CCP response that adequately explains the mechanics.

Why do my drones drop instantly before they even have a chance to return to hangar (my remote-reps and every assortment of ECM aren't even enough to keep my Fighters safe).

What gives?
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#2 - 2015-08-03 14:22:34 UTC
NPC got a new AI quite a while back and it loves to shoot drones, fighters and bombers if these items are your primary weapons system. Never found a link that adequately describes the AI so please share if you are successful.

Tips to help keep drones close so you can recall before they die.
Use sentries for longer ranges.
Not much help but I hope it helps a little.
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-08-03 15:25:22 UTC
A large part of what you think is "rat aggro" against drones is actually the fault of the drones.

NPCs in eve actually have lock ranges, prefered ranges(orbit), sensor resolution, etc They also have different thresholds in mission and plex spaces to "notice" things. If a drone crosses this imaginary line.. its suddenly targeted by the entire group because it is now the >only target they see<.

The same situation happens when the drone decides to lock a target that has not engaged YOU because its within its possible target range. In this case the drone again becomes the only thing on the rats target list.

If either of these situations happen and you recall the drones then YOU become part of the rats target list and they start shooting you. Redeploying your drones now will result in their basic AI code deciding aggro from now on. Rats in eve decide threats based off size, ewar, reps, etc. I have a small suspicion that they also decide based off optimal range. You can see examples of this with gurista rats. Heavy drones deployed against a gurista battleship will almost never be engaged at 0-30km. If you start hanging out around 70km, however, you'll occasionally have a drone get eaten when it becomes a threat.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-08-03 20:39:28 UTC
I noticed that sleeper rats in C1/C2 WH will eat small and medium drones but will almost never target heavy drones. Been wondering why.

When using drones in missions or anomalies the biggest threat is the elite frigate rats. They will web/warp disrupt your drones and you'll be unable to recall them; they will pop within seconds.
Whitelightrr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-08-04 04:08:08 UTC
I won't claim I remembe with 100% accuracy but here goes, in addition to the range mechanics above:
When the AI and drone changes were announced CCP said something to the effect of ship size vs drone size also plays a role. Npcs will target "up" in drone size (frigates attacking mediums), but generally won't down target (BS vs lights). I have seen BCS and Cruisers targeting lights, so I don't think the rule is set in stone. Perhaps they'll go +/- a drone size?

I would say the rules for it is complicated. Size of target and drone, some type of optimal range factor, and for lack of a better term a threat table too (which is way Ewar helps keep aggro)
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-08-04 05:44:50 UTC
I will add to Whitelightrr's comment by stating that my observations of drone aggression against like targets is probably something to do with sig radius. You will see the same effect with frigates sharing the grid which are also engaged.

I would hazard a guess that the reason you don't see "downsizing" of targets is because the AI code now checks sigrad variations and will not shoot a target it has a low probability of doing significant damage to. Again this is simply a guess based on observations but it would explain the rare instance of battleships engaging heavy drones just after they were hit by npc ewar(tp/webs/etc)


All that said though the AI is still very simple on the surface. Provided you are within "range" and on its threat list its very predictable.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-08-04 08:01:25 UTC
Anyone else have experience of sleepers ignoring heavy drones?

Frigates, cruisers, battleships; none attack heavies.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#8 - 2015-08-05 06:19:27 UTC
From what I have seen, most rats consider heavy drones and sentries to be in the same size class as the ship they are deployed from. This means all I need to do in a Dominix is paint targets to maintain 100% of rat aggro. Effectiveness of painting doesn't seem to matter.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dalts
Out of Fwocus
Fwodin's Call
#9 - 2015-08-07 23:25:14 UTC
As above they have preferred sig radius targets, so depends on what NPCs are around. They also dynamically assess threat levels, and they hate Ewar with a passion so many drone boats run a mid slot Ewar to draw the agro from the drones, e.g. TP or even an ECM sometimes, as the AI doubly hates ECM, likely due to the code being originally for sleepers
Dalts
Out of Fwocus
Fwodin's Call
#10 - 2015-08-07 23:27:00 UTC
Dalts
Out of Fwocus
Fwodin's Call
#11 - 2015-08-07 23:29:44 UTC
Kestrix
The Whispering
#12 - 2015-08-08 23:09:30 UTC
For the most part I use a Gecko drone. It destroys everything from frigates upwards, the only time I switch to light drones is to kill spider drones. The Gecko is tough enough to survive when the NPC's attack it and kills them very quickly. Only rarely do I have to recall it to the drone bay.