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Do you foreign people have english class in college?

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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#61 - 2015-07-31 00:36:13 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Then again, there's the adjective womanly (Germanic), which doesn't have the same meaning as feminine.
I don't think I've ever used the word "womanly" in a sentence before. Let me google that: definition ... definition.. definition... definition... usage. Ok first page with an actual usage. "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding - Amazon.com"

......

uuuuh-k...

I'm in it for the money

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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#62 - 2015-07-31 03:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Webvan wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Then again, there's the adjective womanly (Germanic), which doesn't have the same meaning as feminine.
I don't think I've ever used the word "womanly" in a sentence before. Let me google that: definition ... definition.. definition... definition... usage. Ok first page with an actual usage. "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding - Amazon.com"

......

uuuuh-k...

'Her thin silk tunic fully revealed the curves of her womanly form." - Robert E. Howard, Conan story from 1930s, published in Weird Tales.*
Some other examples: child, children, juvenile, childish, and child-like, juvie detention, kindergarten, filial, kids, young, adolescent, baby, infant. Each one either proto-English or medieval French. Or worked into old English via Norman Invasion French, or church/science research leet Latin.

*Man, those stories are so bad and so good at the same time. The good stuff in the stories pretty much completely erase the brief weak spots. I'm re-reading the whole series, but it takes some time to collect the old paperbacks. How did that guy in back end of Cowshite, Texas in 1930 imagine that stuff? Unexplainable.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#63 - 2015-07-31 03:45:37 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
1930s

The key there, 1930's. And likely the person was born in the 1800's. English seems to always be evolving or changing, at least how it is spoken in any modern form, which also can vary. But those words that do fall away from common usage, well they sometimes do find greater use in poetry or in the titles of books. A literary example of English words that have become uncommon in our era.

I'm in it for the money

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Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2015-07-31 07:24:04 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
1930s

English seems to always be evolving or changing, at least how it is spoken in any modern form, which also can vary. But those words that do fall away from common usage, well they sometimes do find greater use in poetry or in the titles of books. A literary example of English words that have become uncommon in our era.


English is a living language, and that should scare you.
It means that today's typos will be tomorrow's grammar.
With the continuing abuse and bastardization English gets over the Internet, I am fully expecting it to become a mere collection of leetspeak, emoticons and dank memes within a few decades...

The Queen is silently weeping...

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#65 - 2015-07-31 12:14:21 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
English is a living language, and that should scare you.
It means that today's typos will be tomorrow's grammar.
With the continuing abuse and bastardization English gets over the Internet, I am fully expecting it to become a mere collection of leetspeak, emoticons and dank memes within a few decades...

The Queen is silently weeping...
Ooh yeah, no Queens English here Smile American English of the Western US. Seriously, I have a very hard time understanding BBC sometimes. It's just not... cowboy Big smile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_English

I'm in it for the money

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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#66 - 2015-08-02 00:42:16 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
1930s

The key there, 1930's. And likely the person was born in the 1800's. English seems to always be evolving or changing, at least how it is spoken in any modern form, which also can vary. But those words that do fall away from common usage, well they sometimes do find greater use in poetry or in the titles of books. A literary example of English words that have become uncommon in our era.

That list is a great resource of Renaissance festival vendors, actors, and staff. Smile I had to man a booth at one once, and had a hard time dealing with all of the "anon"s and "forsooth"s.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#67 - 2015-08-02 02:37:37 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:

That list is a great resource of Renaissance festival vendors, actors, and staff. Smile I had to man a booth at one once, and had a hard time dealing with all of the "anon"s and "forsooth"s.

Aye, oft times yonder booby simply needeth a leech to befall those occasions so to redress a puissant plash Big smile

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#68 - 2015-08-02 23:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Khergit Deserters wrote:
English is a messy language, compared to other languages. I learned that trying to teach it as an EFL teacher. It has a lot of odd grammatical, spelling and pronunciation exceptions that you just have to memorize.

Having a Germanic base, but also a giant load of Latin and medieval French words in it doesn't help with the disorder. So you have the noun house (Germanic), but the corresponding adjective is domestic (Latin). You have the noun woman(Germanic), but the adjectives female and feminine (French). Then again, there's the adjective womanly (Germanic), which doesn't have the same meaning as feminine. According to linguists, the big choice of similar-meaning words from different languages makes English one of the most expressive languages in the world. But the mashup also kind of makes the grammar and spelling a mess.

Not that having a single language root necessarily makes things easier.

Swedish is a Germanic language through and through, 17th–19th century French fashions aside, and as mentioned earlier, it simply skips over some grammatical details that are present in other languages (like number in verb conjugation). The evil part is that it still tries to retain a large differentiation of meaning, and rather than use spelling and word forms to convey those differences it uses stress, melody, and umpty-eleven accents that are not spelled out and that only vaguely follow any kind of rule system. You just have to intuitively know the difference.

Going back to the original question of the OP, these are things that native speakers don't really consider all that often — they gain the intuition through their normal language learning (and still get it wrong with some frequency). We all learn about our 8 vowels (including the 3 umlauted ones — å, ä, and ö), but we're not really formally taught about how all of those 8 each have 18 different (meaning-bearing) pronunciations.¹

The classic exampel is how “tomten” (the gnome/Santa) is not the same word as “tomten” (the back yard). Had it been a nice and gentle language like, say, French, the difference would have been obvious since they would have been spelled “tômtèn” and “tómten”, respectively. Similarly, “banan” (banana) is obviously a different word than “banan” (the race track) — hell, one is indefinite, the other is definite — again, spelling out the accents that would make this apparent (bánãn vs. bãnàn).

This is where we Swedes get our characteristic sing-song English accent from: the difference in not just stress and length, but rising and falling tone of vowels carries morphological meaning. In exchange, Swedish has pretty much zero concern for voiced and unvoiced consonants so no-one ever manages to make “ice” sound any different from “eyes” — it's all unvoiced hissing around here. P


¹ Coincidentally, the fact that those three umlauted vowels are considered separate letters makes it really confusing when certain countries try to use them to make cool-looking heävy mëtal bånd namës… Sometimes, you get some really funny false friend errors that way.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2015-08-03 09:02:30 UTC
Whoa. ITT: Dank linguistics.

Webvan wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
1930s

The key there, 1930's. And likely the person was born in the 1800's. English seems to always be evolving or changing, at least how it is spoken in any modern form, which also can vary. But those words that do fall away from common usage, well they sometimes do find greater use in poetry or in the titles of books. A literary example of English words that have become uncommon in our era.


I am a little surprised that I knew about 30-40% of the words on the list, with some of them I didn't even know that they are considered obsolete by now.
Maybe it's because my English teacher at school was an old Welshman...

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#70 - 2015-08-04 00:56:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:
1930s

English seems to always be evolving or changing, at least how it is spoken in any modern form, which also can vary. But those words that do fall away from common usage, well they sometimes do find greater use in poetry or in the titles of books. A literary example of English words that have become uncommon in our era.


English is a living language, and that should scare you.
It means that today's typos will be tomorrow's grammar.
With the continuing abuse and bastardization English gets over the Internet, I am fully expecting it to become a mere collection of leetspeak, emoticons and dank memes within a few decades...

The Queen is silently weeping...

Yes, sad to think about, but the ignorance (lack of knowledge) steamroller seems to be getting bigger and heavier every day. I sort of understand the confusion with there, their and they're. But I can't understand the strange and growing misuse of capital letters. Example: "On Friday we will be cleaning out the Refrigerator in the break room and defrosting the Freezer. Please remove any food you have there. Any unclaimed food' will be thrown away. Also as a friendly reminder, if you will attend the company Picnic, you must reply by August 14." Why were some nouns chosen to be capitalized, and some not? The reasoning behind it is baffling. It makes me fearful about the reasoning power of the minds behind those sentences. (The people writing them are all managerial/admin types with plenty of corporate world survival and advancement common sense, by the way).

Interesting about Swedish language's use of intonation and pronunciation to convey singular/plural and differentiate between words that would look like homonyms, if spelled out. Japanese language hardly has a syntax for conveying that something is plural. There's a suffix that can be tacked on, but it's used mostly in written language. If the people are communicating orally, they just pick up clues from the context of what's being said. That's enough.

At the other extreme is the language of Yap, a tiny island in the western Pacific. There are singular, dual, and plural tenses. And differentiations, depending on whether the listener is included in the dual/plural group. Examples:
"I am going to go now." Ngu gu wan.
"We (you and I) are going to go now." Darow.
"We (myself and this guy, but not you) are going to go now." Ngwarow. (Shortened form of Ngu gu warow).
"We (everybody present, three or more) are going to go now." Darod.
"We (three or more of us, but not you) are going to go now." Ngwarod. (Shortened form of Ngu gu warod).

Languages are so cool. Amazing how many different techniques humans around the world developed to convey ideas to each other.
Elyan Mishi
Jadesoturi.
#71 - 2015-08-04 10:51:12 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:

But I can't understand the strange and growing misuse of capital letters. Example: "On Friday we will be cleaning out the Refrigerator in the break room and defrosting the Freezer. Please remove any food you have there. Any unclaimed food' will be thrown away. Also as a friendly reminder, if you will attend the company Picnic, you must reply by August 14." Why were some nouns chosen to be capitalized, and some not? The reasoning behind it is baffling. It makes me fearful about the reasoning power of the minds behind those sentences. (The people writing them are all managerial/admin types with plenty of corporate world survival and advancement common sense, by the way).

I presume that some people don't read everything thoroughly and capitalized letters mark the words as important and thus, possibly, warrant a more thorough reading. I don't really know though.
jason hill
Red vs Blue Flight Academy
#72 - 2015-08-04 17:18:02 UTC
I personally like the word "BOLLOXS" myself
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#73 - 2015-08-04 17:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
You english people have been raided so many times in history. I assume french, germanic and latin amalgamation must suffice for now, until you amalgamate hindi and slavic too.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#74 - 2015-08-04 22:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Khergit Deserters wrote:
[i]A study, published in 1973, offered this breakdown of sources of the words in English:
Latin, 28.34 percent;
This is wildly disputed, one thing is that a lot of German (from trade not conquest) and French has Latin roots so some argue that 60% of English is from Latin.
The more recent event is the Anglo-Saxons and the Normandy invasion, there was a low class and an upper class language, the plebs speaking mostly their Germanic tongue and the ruling Normans their French.
It is why English tends to have two words for many meanings now (incomplete).

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#75 - 2015-08-04 22:58:15 UTC
In my early teens, I somehow picked up a very archaic vocabulary, such that many around me would not always understand what I was talking about. I was unaware of it until my best friend of the time kept tripping me up, correcting old / less used words with the more modern ones.

Language is used to control the way we think now. It is why there is so much pressure to use such things as, "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" instead of the more impacting word on a mind, "Shell Shocked"
Less common sense and practicality, makes people more dependant on the governent and less inclined to independant action, (such as rebellions, crime or weeding out corruption)
If you have to think a certain way to speak a certain way, those neural pathways grow stronger. It is one method of cognitive behavior therapy / manipulation.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#76 - 2015-08-04 23:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vortexo VonBrenner
I think I see what you are saying, but "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" is a much more flexible and descriptive term than "Shell Shock". "Shell" kind of limits the term to a military-related problem. Certainly for most people who struggle with PTSD it is related to military things - but not in all cases, such as certain r@pe victims. So I think with that term the evolution of language is well.

Anyway...I'm just amazed those weerd foreign people like know about electricity and stuff. lol
Jacques d'Orleans
#77 - 2015-08-04 23:34:30 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

Language is used to control the way we think now. It is why there is so much pressure to use such things as, "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" instead of the more impacting word on a mind, "Shell Shocked"


Don't get me wrong, I'm getting what your point is, but in case of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and shell shock, you just picked a bad example.
Shell shock is just a variety of PTSD, there are other symptoms for PTSD like "the 1000 yard stare", " Soldiers heart", "Combat fatigue", "Combat stress reaction" and so on.
PTSD is in medical terms way more precise than shell shock. Victims of e.g. severe accidents, terrorist attacks or sexual abuse can also develop symptoms of PTSD exactly like combat soldiers, but both groups do not necessarily develop symptoms of shell shock.
PTSD covers way more symptoms than shell shock, like extreme nightmares, drug and alcohol abuse related to suffered traumatic events, severe insomnia and many more. Also PTSD if not treated properly it can develop into psychopathy and other disorders.
My boss, da missus, could give you a way better explanation than me, she works with patients requiring such treatment.
Jacques d'Orleans
#78 - 2015-08-04 23:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jacques d'Orleans
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:

Anyway...I'm just amazed those weerd foreign people like know about electricity and stuff. lol


Mate, i tell you, yesterday we invented fire and such a round thingy, we called it a wheel!
We were so happy we decided to eat Grandma!
CoolBig smile
Jenshae Chiroptera
#79 - 2015-08-05 00:48:17 UTC
I thought PTSD, while not the best of examples is less inflammatory than other politically corret words were are conditioned to use.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#80 - 2015-08-05 03:06:17 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I thought PTSD, while not the best of examples is less inflammatory than other politically corret words were are conditioned to use.
George Carlin may be funny mmm but that's about it. PTSD has been defined in clinical psychology since 1980. They didn't just rename it, but better defined what it is, as they figured it out anyway. For science! Other things, sure, but the clinical diagnosis of PTSD is pretty accurate and the name fits. I wouldn't even list it as an example. Not even as a 'non-traditional success'... Blink

I'm in it for the money

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