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Why Eve is Failing and will "die off" with in 3 years

First post
Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#61 - 2015-08-04 17:34:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Aminari Talar wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I'd also be surprised if it took all of a couple of weeks before a 3rd party app. auto sorted corps with unofficial "blue" status for you instantly.



Wouldn't be possible because "sorting by corp and alliance" was one of the purposed removal (changes).

So it would have to sort by player name. Which would make any sort of third party app very heavy in larger groups (potentially anyways). Additionally Apps that work around the game and give unfair advantages are a violation of the EULA, and anyone created a third party work around would be subjective to bans etc.

The sorting wouldn't be done in the overview, but by the 3rd party ap.
So unless you are suggesting that this information be secret somehow (LOL) it can be done. Quite easily actually.
Even if you took the remarkably silly (not to mention game breaking) step of keeping corp info from showing up on your screen, it could still be easily done simply by player name... unless you want to keep that a secret too. Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smile
Corp rosters are already available through 3rd pary apps.

This is just one example of how your proposals are not only impossible to implement in a workable fashion, but would be game breaking if you tried to force the issue. Anyone with the slightest background in game design would already know this, so instead of calling you a liar on that point, I'll simply have to assume you're trolling.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#62 - 2015-08-04 17:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
Aminari Talar wrote:
No,

Players like to advocate for extreme amounts of abusive, scams, and other crminal-like behavior.
The truth is that the majority of gamers out there dont have their morale compass broken like you, and your political body (and the one your political body comes from).

I'm advocating that we restore balance to the game, by pushing back the criminal abusive a degree, and helping spread out the population so we can see new inventive idea's like redfrog.

You on the other hand (and people like you) want more carebears to scam, kill, and abuse... and while i have my opinions about you and people like you, ultimately what is better for this game is that those "casual pve based players" are catered to over people like you... Because well they make up another 80% or more of the game then people like you do.

and i'd rather have a game full of carebears who know how to treat people and who feed ccp money, then having a bunch of people who are bent on the only objective they have... to destroy the game.


Oh god!!!
That guy is so right. Eve is right now "psychopathic wannabe pro-pvpers kill, grief, scam casual players online".

Edit: And he is also right about that: Eve actually has nothing for casual bros who do not want to pvp. So CCP really denies customers?!?! Why???

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#63 - 2015-08-04 17:49:43 UTC
Robert Sawyer wrote:
Unlike all the other "EVE is dying" posts, this one was actually coherent and precise. Nice chart, by the way.
I can only agree with you that the harsh aspect of the game that the noob is exposed to from day one makes him leave. I had befriended 12 newbies from the beginning of July. All of them complained about ganks or scams and then made a rage-quit.

Regarding your corporate discussion, having two major power blocs that control the majority of the playerbase is bad, because if a new player were to join CFC (for example) and then have a change of heart, nobody would want to accept him anymore. The same applies for the other bloc.

That would be pretty atypical, since statistically players that experience a gank or similar experience are FAR more likely to stick with the game long term. Yeah, it surprised CCP too, but there it is.

And yes, that chart does an excellent job of showing how... in his mind... EVE works, with all those false assumptions fully illustrated. Unfortunately it doesn't reflect the verifiable way the game actually works at all.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#64 - 2015-08-04 18:12:51 UTC
Aminari Talar wrote:
Greetings,

I wanted to write a post about eve.

I am a 2003 Player, and i have extensive knowledge of game design. I wanted to talk about why eve has a few years life span left on it, and what can be done to fit the game.


Noted that your posting with a 2015 forum recruitment alt... Stopped reading.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Lu Ziffer
Balanced Unity
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2015-08-04 18:20:06 UTC
Robert Sawyer wrote:
Unlike all the other "EVE is dying" posts, this one was actually coherent and precise. Nice chart, by the way.
I can only agree with you that the harsh aspect of the game that the noob is exposed to from day one makes him leave. I had befriended 12 newbies from the beginning of July. All of them complained about ganks or scams and then made a rage-quit.

So what happened? Did they got scammed out of their first billion isk I realy would like to know how they acquired the isk or did they got ganked in their 300mil mission BS .
Both are not realistic scenarios, why would someone gang a worthless ship and most scams have more value then a new play has ISK.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#66 - 2015-08-04 18:29:01 UTC
.......
that flowchart is correct, if VERY simplistic,
the sad fact is - a lot of corps die because of a dearth of members, and those that are left, then get bored and also leave/move on.......
big corps are stable - as losing 10 players is less that 1% of their playerbase.
small corps are v unstable, as losing 10 players may remove their entire active playerbase, or leave corp chat empty for vast amounts of time

the way to get people to stay in the game, is to get them to interact with others.....

I saw something on league of angels or somesuch, where the best 'guilds' in the game got bonuses..... might be a good idea for CCP to implement that in EVE, perhaps for different regions, so that the prizes aren't something that no-one'll ever see, but also not to be sniffed at missing....

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Robert Sawyer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#67 - 2015-08-04 18:36:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Sawyer
Lu Ziffer wrote:

So what happened? Did they got scammed out of their first billion isk I realy would like to know how they acquired the isk or did they got ganked in their 300mil mission BS .
Both are not realistic scenarios, why would someone gang a worthless ship and most scams have more value then a new play has ISK.



I helped them with a few millions until they got their first mining barge. A few days later, the Catalysts rolled in.
And for the scams, a couple of these lads went to Jita and were given some "legit" contracts that were specifically tailored for them.

"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."

Lu Ziffer
Balanced Unity
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2015-08-04 18:40:03 UTC
Robert Sawyer wrote:

I helped them with a few millions until they got their first mining barge. A few days later, the Catalysts rolled in.
And for the scams, a couple of these lads went to Jita and were given some "legit" contracts that were specifically tailored for them.

So how did they got ganked or scammed?
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#69 - 2015-08-04 18:49:23 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Eve will never die because the core population of the game will never acknowledge that they converted years of their lives to skill points for nothing. But but I typed dank and 420 seven million times during gate camping. That had to mean something. Oh and the cat pictures for god's sake!


I agree. But every day that goes by, we are slowly turning into those people that can't turn back. You can log out, but you can never leave...
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#70 - 2015-08-04 18:58:14 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Aminari Talar wrote:
No,

Players like to advocate for extreme amounts of abusive, scams, and other crminal-like behavior.
The truth is that the majority of gamers out there dont have their morale compass broken like you, and your political body (and the one your political body comes from).

I'm advocating that we restore balance to the game, by pushing back the criminal abusive a degree, and helping spread out the population so we can see new inventive idea's like redfrog.

You on the other hand (and people like you) want more carebears to scam, kill, and abuse... and while i have my opinions about you and people like you, ultimately what is better for this game is that those "casual pve based players" are catered to over people like you... Because well they make up another 80% or more of the game then people like you do.

and i'd rather have a game full of carebears who know how to treat people and who feed ccp money, then having a bunch of people who are bent on the only objective they have... to destroy the game.


Oh god!!!
That guy is so right. Eve is right now "psychopathic wannabe pro-pvpers kill, grief, scam casual players online".

Edit: And he is also right about that: Eve actually has nothing for casual bros who do not want to pvp. So CCP really denies customers?!?! Why???

Cant tell if sarcasm or just whine, but ill give my statement anyway.

So.. you dont want to pvp in a pvp game, and that is somehow CCP's fault. That is some awesome logic right there. CCP created a game they wanted that is PvP orientated with "PvE" tidbits sprinkled in to create "professions". By doing these professions, you are still eligible to recieving a salvo of artillery from another player, just because they can.

If you dont like it, learn to fight back or leave. A simple concept really. There are plenty of games that cater to your PVE fanaticism, EVE caters to those that get more fun by strategizing against another player than a level 55 NPC wizard.
Robert Sawyer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#71 - 2015-08-04 19:00:52 UTC
Lu Ziffer wrote:

So how did they got ganked or scammed?


The gank part was pretty straight forward: 7 of them got ganked by blast-fit catalysts, probably for killmails or for giggles.
The other 5 went to Jita where they were approached by scammers who promised them 300 million for their mining barges. The fools must've gotten excited, because they failed to see that the contract payed only 300 tousand ISK.

"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."

Lu Ziffer
Balanced Unity
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2015-08-04 19:13:55 UTC
@Robert Sawyer: That is a sad story.

But more to the point EVE is not a PVP game it is a game where all kinds of content are equally possible.

So the reason why new players are ganked is pure boredom of a very small group of players.
You can find a hundred threads about this from both sides and actually it involves only two small groups.
The player who does not know about the game enough and the players who are defining themself by a KD ratio on a killboard.

There is nothing CCP can do about that.

But the playerbase could do something about it.

Ganking and scaming are a part of the game but doing it to newbies for fun is like beating a blindguy and filming it just to put it on youtube to show how cool you are.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#73 - 2015-08-04 19:20:09 UTC
Robert Sawyer wrote:
Lu Ziffer wrote:

So how did they got ganked or scammed?


The gank part was pretty straight forward: 7 of them got ganked by blast-fit catalysts, probably for killmails or for giggles.
The other 5 went to Jita where they were approached by scammers who promised them 300 million for their mining barges. The fools must've gotten excited, because they failed to see that the contract payed only 300 tousand ISK.


So they were upset that they didn't read the fineprint and the miners were upset that you didn't tell them that they would be ganked?

You must have given them really good advice then.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#74 - 2015-08-04 19:20:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Aminari Talar wrote:
No,

Players like to advocate for extreme amounts of abusive, scams, and other crminal-like behavior.
The truth is that the majority of gamers out there dont have their morale compass broken like you, and your political body (and the one your political body comes from).

I'm advocating that we restore balance to the game, by pushing back the criminal abusive a degree, and helping spread out the population so we can see new inventive idea's like redfrog.

You on the other hand (and people like you) want more carebears to scam, kill, and abuse... and while i have my opinions about you and people like you, ultimately what is better for this game is that those "casual pve based players" are catered to over people like you... Because well they make up another 80% or more of the game then people like you do.

and i'd rather have a game full of carebears who know how to treat people and who feed ccp money, then having a bunch of people who are bent on the only objective they have... to destroy the game.


Oh god!!!
That guy is so right. Eve is right now "psychopathic wannabe pro-pvpers kill, grief, scam casual players online".

Edit: And he is also right about that: Eve actually has nothing for casual bros who do not want to pvp. So CCP really denies customers?!?! Why???

Cant tell if sarcasm or just whine, but ill give my statement anyway.

So.. you dont want to pvp in a pvp game, and that is somehow CCP's fault. That is some awesome logic right there. CCP created a game they wanted that is PvP orientated with "PvE" tidbits sprinkled in to create "professions". By doing these professions, you are still eligible to recieving a salvo of artillery from another player, just because they can.

If you dont like it, learn to fight back or leave. A simple concept really. There are plenty of games that cater to your PVE fanaticism, EVE caters to those that get more fun by strategizing against another player than a level 55 NPC wizard.


Translation: "But I am **** and want to kill targets that can´t shoot back in highsec"

Okay now think about it.
You won´t notice players who are staying out of eve because they don´t want to be forced to pvp.
Now if CCP gives these people a superhighsec you will still not notice them but CCP gets some income.
If CCP gets some income it is good for EVERY eve player.
Plain simple and really not argueable.

And no you can look at my kb I am no highsec bear. But apart from most eve palyers I am a social one and not happy about ganking bears or new players.
E.g I even reimibursed most people when I saw that I killed a new probably noobish toon.
Eve simply actually rewards tooooooo much being an antisocial badass and that is not good.

Edit: VEEEEEERY BRAVE posting with an npc corp alt.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Abby Silverwind
Demonic Retribution
Shadow Ultimatum
#75 - 2015-08-04 19:59:10 UTC
Ah another Eve is dying thread. From the looks of it for someone who should like to take away the bit that makes eve, eve, and turn it into another boring raid grinding MMO like wow where the only drama is anlbout who smack talked who

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me;

Your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Drunk Posting Best Posting

Beta Maoye
#76 - 2015-08-04 20:22:15 UTC
Generally speaking, online games are being made more suitable for causal style than they used to be. EVE is quite unique that new contents are made more hardcore, in both PVP(Aegis sov) and PVE(Burners) area. May be this is good for the distinctiveness of EVE players. Or may be this is not a good trend. I hope CCP will remain flexible to review their design if they see clear evidence that something went wrong.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#77 - 2015-08-04 20:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Okay now think about it.
You won´t notice players who are staying out of eve because they don´t want to be forced to pvp.
Now if CCP gives these people a superhighsec you will still not notice them but CCP gets some income.
If CCP gets some income it is good for EVERY eve player.
Plain simple and really not argueable.
Plain, simple, and pretty much entirely false.

They will be noticed since they will have a negative impact on the overall economy and balance of the game, and they will not yield any income since they will not stick around — after all, they're not exposed to any of the “sticky” parts of the game. Instead, CCP will have committed resources to something that gives no return and which causes game-wide imbalances that they have to commit even more resources to fixing.

So it's bad for CCP, bad for the game, and bad for pretty much all players.

Catering to players who don't want to PvP in a full-time PvP game is a losing proposition — what they want is inherently incompatible with the core concept of the game and as such can't be blended into it without breaking everything else. The result of such attempts will only ever be one thing: no traction among new players, since the game still isn't for them, and a loss of old players since the game no longer is for them either — i.e. fewer players, less money, less development and maintenance, lessened ability to attract investors, and an overall less compelling product for everyone.
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2015-08-04 20:45:53 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:

The flow chart is hilarious.


Dammit. You made me curious.

Was it just me, or was that flow chart complete gibberish?

How can EVE die when its already died once? The flesh and soul blasted off it in one massive **** storm release. The last tattered remains held together with the sheer tenacity and hope of a player base. Raw belief in what EVE can be, if only the right androgynous leader were to take the reigns...

Eve's physics engine can't tell which way your ship is pointed.
The servers can't handle the game we were sold and promised functionality for.
Devs can't figure out how to make something better, and just **** on it instead.
Old content just doesn't have a reason to exist anymore, but is left to sit like an elephant in the room.
Vestigial features are left lying around to confuse and bemuse old and new player alike.

... Yet Eve lives. And will weather these things, as it has always done.

Who are you, and with what arrogance do you presume to know the fate of a clearly immortal and unkillable eldritch game?
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#79 - 2015-08-04 20:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Colt Blackhawk
Tippia wrote:
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
Okay now think about it.
You won´t notice players who are staying out of eve because they don´t want to be forced to pvp.
Now if CCP gives these people a superhighsec you will still not notice them but CCP gets some income.
If CCP gets some income it is good for EVERY eve player.
Plain simple and really not argueable.
Plain, simple, and pretty much entirely false.

They will be noticed since they will have a negative impact on the overall economy and balance of the game, and they will not yield any income since they will not stick around — after all, they're not exposed to any of the “sticky” parts of the game. Instead, CCP will have committed resources to something that gives no return and which causes game-wide imbalances that they have to commit even more resources to fixing.

So it's bad for CCP, bad for the game, and bad for pretty much all players.

Catering to players who don't want to PvP in a full-time PvP game is a losing proposition — what they want is inherently incompatible with the core concept of the game and as such can't be blended into it without breaking everything else. The result of such attempts will only ever be one thing: no traction among new players, since the game still isn't for them, and a loss of old players since the game no longer is for them either — i.e. fewer players, less money, less development and maintenance, lessened ability to attract investors, and an overall less compelling product for everyone.


Plain simple and without any brains :P
Superhighsec would have ****** income and the impact on economy would be a joke.
You remember when Fozzie killed fw 3 years ago and everywhere were these guys "I made 30b only last week"?
You can still make 200 up to 300 mil/h in lowsec with 3 month old toon. Still didn´t break the market.
Eve is not one game. In fact it is many games somehow in one world.
Really why not give some carebears some worthless, carebear space???
Look at 0.0. It is more carebear space and mostly even safer than highsec will ever be.
But it is NOT newbie and casual bear compatible in most cases.
Actually I didn´t see any good argument against superhighsec and more social behaviour in eve apart from "I am a saddistic psychopath who wants to get easy kills".
No one who cam call himself a true PVPer will go out there and kill bears in high. No one.
But no we need all those bears who really don´t do any harm and pay money to CCP slaughtered by psychopaths^^

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2015-08-04 21:01:18 UTC
Aminari Talar wrote:


I am a 2003 Player, and i have extensive knowledge of game design.


Why do all smartasses always start out with this sentence?