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Bubble balance
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Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2015-08-04 15:02:04 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Then you can't cage a POS to hell and back and the goodies will just escape.


Then get an interdictor and launch some bubbles. We're talking about anchorables. If the goodies escape, pilot better.

Nyalnara wrote:
Dungeon Defenders is a 2D game (when it comes to bubbles). And you can precisely place it, because there are mechanichs to do so.

As far as i remember, it is kinda hard to precisely put your ship in a specific spot (because acceleration/deceleration). And when launched the bubble anchorable will spawn "somewhere" around your ship. More imprecision.

Restricting placement is fine when you can choose exact position, restricting placement is not fine when game-mechanics choose for you.


Precise placement isn't necessary. Being off for a few meters is fine when bubbles can reach up to 40k according to my in-game info panel. You have access to a ship overlay that gives you range information. I'd hate to break the news to you, but you know when you're 80km from another object (40km for the existing bubble, 40km for the bubble you want to anchor). On the off chance you are trying for exact placement and it tries to anchor off your port bow and the game refuses because you are too close, try again until the game anchors it off your starboard bow. You'll be fine.

By the way, the fine men and women who put together that Borg Cube would disagree about any argument about precision placement being impossible.

If precise placement is necessary, feel free to put forth arguments about why it is so ultra-important that the difference of 30 meters on an AOE item with a 40 kilometers reach is so important.

Also, I'm not certain about anchoring. I'll give you that one in advance. But for fun, in the past, I've jettisoned dozens of cans around my stationery ship. They stay very close around my ship. I can't imagine anchoring mechanics are all that much more different.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#22 - 2015-08-04 15:05:45 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Absolutely, but it is addressing this kind of bullshit and this, you know the ones.I had in mind.

Sounds like they should be petitioned for lagbombing.

Like seriously, those are overboard...


Yes they are and they can potentionally make you blind. The only proposal on bubbles I would consider agreeing to would be to put an end to gate-bubble-blobbs.

Some carebears in Oasa are so very keen on keeping their gates bubbled to kingdom come it is not funny anymore. Maybe a restriction on how many bubbles you can put on a gate (as in proximity of the gate) should be made, my arbitrary limit would be one bubble around a 100km diameter around the gate.
Which means you can still bubble your gate but you can no longer make people blind by putting 3923490237857456 bubbles on the same gate anymore.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-08-04 15:12:37 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Then you can't cage a POS to hell and back and the goodies will just escape.


Then get an interdictor and launch some bubbles. We're talking about anchorables. If the goodies escape, pilot better.

Nyalnara wrote:
Dungeon Defenders is a 2D game (when it comes to bubbles). And you can precisely place it, because there are mechanichs to do so.

As far as i remember, it is kinda hard to precisely put your ship in a specific spot (because acceleration/deceleration). And when launched the bubble anchorable will spawn "somewhere" around your ship. More imprecision.

Restricting placement is fine when you can choose exact position, restricting placement is not fine when game-mechanics choose for you.


Precise placement isn't necessary. Being off for a few meters is fine when bubbles can reach up to 40k according to my in-game info panel. You have access to a ship overlay that gives you range information. I'd hate to break the news to you, but you know when you're 80km from another object (40km for the existing bubble, 40km for the bubble you want to anchor). On the off chance you are trying for exact placement and it tries to anchor off your port bow and the game refuses because you are too close, try again until the game anchors it off your starboard bow. You'll be fine.

By the way, the fine men and women who put together that Borg Cube would disagree about any argument about precision placement being impossible.

If precise placement is necessary, feel free to put forth arguments about why it is so ultra-important that the difference of 30 meters on an AOE item with a 40 kilometers reach is so important.

Also, I'm not certain about anchoring. I'll give you that one in advance. But for fun, in the past, I've jettisoned dozens of cans around my stationery ship. They stay very close around my ship. I can't imagine anchoring mechanics are all that much more different.


The problem with non-overlapping bubbles is how the UI stop giving precise distance reading at anything over 10km. A targetted roid can be displayed at 15km on overview but still be at 15400m away. If they can't overlap at all, it effectively would be a nightmare to put a few close together.

You could always limit the number that can be anchored on the same grid to prevent the BS seen in the screen shots earlier in this thread tho.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-08-04 15:15:46 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Absolutely, but it is addressing this kind of bullshit and this, you know the ones.I had in mind.

Sounds like they should be petitioned for lagbombing.

Like seriously, those are overboard...


Yes they are and they can potentionally make you blind. The only proposal on bubbles I would consider agreeing to would be to put an end to gate-bubble-blobbs.

Some carebears in Oasa are so very keen on keeping their gates bubbled to kingdom come it is not funny anymore. Maybe a restriction on how many bubbles you can put on a gate (as in proximity of the gate) should be made, my arbitrary limit would be one bubble around a 100km diameter around the gate.
Which means you can still bubble your gate but you can no longer make people blind by putting 3923490237857456 bubbles on the same gate anymore.


Could be more than 1 per 100km without creating real problems. The 2 SS have over 30 each...
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#25 - 2015-08-04 16:39:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Could be more than 1 per 100km without creating real problems. The 2 SS have over 30 each...


I would be just fine with even 2 or 3 bubbles but some people just- I have no words..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#26 - 2015-08-04 18:31:54 UTC
what happens when a fleet of 100 people warp into 2 or 3 of these new bubbles - how do the points spread then?

also - can CCP not 'encourage' the circadian seekers to pop bubbles in space, especially if there is no player there to guard them......

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#27 - 2015-08-04 19:27:31 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
what happens when a fleet of 100 people warp into 2 or 3 of these new bubbles - how do the points spread then?

also - can CCP not 'encourage' the circadian seekers to pop bubbles in space, especially if there is no player there to guard them......


I am really sorry but I do not care. Maybe you don't have screen with 360cd/cm² that produces really bright whites that blind your vision by just entering the system.

It is just silly jumping into 289585808427786259265 bubbles on the gate you just went into. And if 100 people scare you, you can dock.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#28 - 2015-08-05 01:44:55 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
what happens when a fleet of 100 people warp into 2 or 3 of these new bubbles - how do the points spread then?

also - can CCP not 'encourage' the circadian seekers to pop bubbles in space, especially if there is no player there to guard them......


I am really sorry but I do not care. Maybe you don't have screen with 360cd/cm² that produces really bright whites that blind your vision by just entering the system.

It is just silly jumping into 289585808427786259265 bubbles on the gate you just went into. And if 100 people scare you, you can dock.


He was not asking you. That question was for the OP.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#29 - 2015-08-05 03:02:51 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
He was not asking you. That question was for the OP.


eeeeek... then disregard.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#30 - 2015-08-05 07:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Draahk Chimera
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
what happens when a fleet of 100 people warp into 2 or 3 of these new bubbles - how do the points spread then?

also - can CCP not 'encourage' the circadian seekers to pop bubbles in space, especially if there is no player there to guard them......


No spread. Each bubble would apply the points to each ship.

Again. It's not (only) about hellbubbles but about making bubbles interesting and modern. Read my previous replies.

Bronson Hughes wrote:
I can understand the OP's desire to mix things up a bit. Right now, there is no gameplay reason not to use T2 large bubbles if they are available. His proposal would make smaller bubbles more useful and open up more varied gameplay ideas.

Yes exactly. You don't use titans as your first tackle on gatecaps, you don't use interceptors as your main dps is a fleet fight.

Bronson Hughes wrote:
Having said that, I can't support this idea. The whole point of bubbles (no pun intended) is to provide warp interdiction against ships up to, and including, supercaps. Since only infinite-point systems can interdict supercaps, anchorable bubbles would need to retain their infinite-point status. Plus, if you go to a finite-point system on bubbles, the interdiction immunity role bonus becomes far less useful and those hulls would likely have to be re-balanced to compensate.

I honestly do not understand. The text would still say "immune to non-targeted interdiction" nothing would change at all in regards to those ships. They would still be immune to bubbles and, maybe more important, dictor probes.

Really? You catch supers by anchoring a bubble next to them? Here I was thinking most folks used hix.

Bronson Hughes wrote:
I support tweaking anchored bubbles to make smaller bubbles more viable, just not this particular tweak. Maybe change up their relative HP stats such that larger bubbles are more fragile but cover more area and smaller bubbles are more durable but cover less area?

I am still not sure people would pop old abandoned bubbles as they pass by since the main reason for not popping them now is the player aggression timer.

404 - Image not found
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-08-05 10:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Khan Wrenth wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Then you can't cage a POS to hell and back and the goodies will just escape.


Then get an interdictor and launch some bubbles. We're talking about anchorables. If the goodies escape, pilot better.


I know it is anchorable.

Have you EVER actually tried to cage a pos and camp it? You know, for the full stront cycle? Dictors will not cut that. It's an operation over the course of a day or so using scouts and standby drop fleets 23.5/7 until the RF timer is over, otherwise people just warp/jump clean out, unstoppable.

That'd be 2502 sabre bubbles PER SABRE.

In fact I'm actually pretty sure that none of the ship based bubbles can even cover a large pos.
Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#32 - 2015-08-05 12:05:50 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Then you can't cage a POS to hell and back and the goodies will just escape.


Then get an interdictor and launch some bubbles. We're talking about anchorables. If the goodies escape, pilot better.


I know it is anchorable.

Have you EVER actually tried to cage a pos and camp it? You know, for the full stront cycle? Dictors will not cut that. It's an operation over the course of a day or so using scouts and standby drop fleets 23.5/7 until the RF timer is over, otherwise people just warp/jump clean out, unstoppable.

That'd be 2502 sabre bubbles PER SABRE.

In fact I'm actually pretty sure that none of the ship based bubbles can even cover a large pos.

I wasn't going to comment but now half the thread is about poscage so here goes: They are going away! Before the end of this year Citadels is being launched and then poses will be phased out m8.

404 - Image not found
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-08-05 12:22:08 UTC
Draahk Chimera wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Then you can't cage a POS to hell and back and the goodies will just escape.


Then get an interdictor and launch some bubbles. We're talking about anchorables. If the goodies escape, pilot better.


I know it is anchorable.

Have you EVER actually tried to cage a pos and camp it? You know, for the full stront cycle? Dictors will not cut that. It's an operation over the course of a day or so using scouts and standby drop fleets 23.5/7 until the RF timer is over, otherwise people just warp/jump clean out, unstoppable.

That'd be 2502 sabre bubbles PER SABRE.

In fact I'm actually pretty sure that none of the ship based bubbles can even cover a large pos.

I wasn't going to comment but now half the thread is about poscage so here goes: They are going away! Before the end of this year Citadels is being launched and then poses will be phased out m8.



Indeed, but we don't have the mechanic details yet and I'll eat my hat if CCP make it so that it's not possible to lock ships (by means of warp/jump prevention) inside that area by suitably determined aggressors.

Similar events also happen on station undocks, admittedly less for asset redistribution as just flat out hell camping/evac blocking, but you take my point in general.
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