Assembly Hall

Dont quote me out of context. Context is as important as the point. When I said "its easy", I dont meant its literally easy, otherwise we already own half of CFC space. What I meant its easy to decide why we use corm fleet and not carriers. You would be stupid to do so. After all you guys have a habit of droping supers and titans on top of us all the time. I am sure if the tables were turned you would not drop a carrier vs troll titans and supers ;).



I think you personally just destoyer your chances here. So you want null sec space without needed to be protected/easy? WOW.
Really? Do you know that null sec space is suppose to be unsafe right? Besides all the systems that are getting entosied, you dont live in it!


lol no, I am not gen. I am well know for how I speak in TS. Thats me. Take it or leave it. I tell you the way it is and thats it.
I wont bs you around unless I am trolling you ofcource. I also like a good joke and a laugh. Is there anything else you want to know about me? Or are you done with the personal attacks?

So? Whats the point? Are multiboxing bad?
It means more accounts on game which is more incoming money to CCP and you are saying that is bad?
If people are making money in null sec, it means that they are working to do so, or are you talking about bots?
Bots are used in null sec first and almost of the players that have complain about that have used them, personally I never used them, but if you have big rich alliances, better to start thinking what they have done before for they have all that money.
you have guys in game that uses multiboxing for pvp, are that bad? Not for me, If they have a pc that can runs all the accounts, why not? Its their ships and its their problem.
Wardecs always have, if that mechanics are good, i dont think so, to me tha small the corp is, bigger the payment should be.
If one part dosent desire to pvp, theres no point to wardec them, they can always bypass the system and not fight, wardecs should be made to those who desire to engage in combat and never to those who never engages in combat, its very simple.
But people tend to force others to do what they dont desire to do, then here comes the complains about they not fight etc etc, its like in real life, some fight, others makes the logistics, others manufacture weapeons food etc, and the big guys (the money guys or the parasites if you prefer) dont do any ****, just sit on they chair making enemies and friends for its convenience and profit with the work and effort of everybody else.
I will never shipping on that, I like small corps, small roams and a place where I can call home, if its hs, low sec, null sec or wh its not relevant, for now null sec to me its not worth, i dont care about get sov and hold it, I dont want CTA´s all the time, I dont want everyday to be 4 or more hours sit on my system waiting for the timers end or chasing ceptors preventing my ihub to be blowned up, sorry, thats not an option to me. Engage in combat yes, but when I want and when I can, not when others want just beacause they want...

Let me speak from my heart in English try to add an opinion from a Russian pilot, as there are not much of us who bother themselves to write in English :)

I would suggest to start with a smaller change, which I've found somewhere on reddit: make an attacker pay, I would say, 300mil to get the structure reinforced. The reinforcement start time should calculate from the actual payment. The payment should be done before the next invulnerability window of the structure. Time mechanic here does not matter much. It should be only done in a way, that does not allow abuse, like get immediate nodes spawn after payment. The pluses are:
- easily implemented
- will decrease trolling, which, in my opinion is the number 1 problem now, that makes SOV boring
- will still allow small alliances to venture in a 0.0 space, as it should not be a problem to chip in 50mil/pilot for a 20 man fleet to take over a system (TCU, iHub, station) if they really want to. For those who say it is a lot of money: get real, they will most probably use ships more expensive then that to actually make it happen

I also agree on the statements of a tool for SOV-war and SOV transfer from the petition. All the other stuff I would not rush to implement: we had one big change done recently, so I would better avoid doing more noticeable immediate changes :)

The prove, that changes to current mechanics are required, is that as far, as I've seen, the only people who think that current mechanics is working as intended are either those who does not live in null sec or don't get trolled a lot, because live 20 jumps away from low-sec. All those who trolled and got trolled (trolled is the key word here, not take over the space for themselves) are saying that some changes are required. Changes and tweaks, I mind you, not reverting back to dominion!

I guess the reason for this, is that people who didn't participate in trolling don't really understand how annoying that is. To make them understand better, I would suggest the following joke change:
- a person can entos NPC station to get it into reinforce with all the mechanics like SOV structures and second reinforce
- the result of 'taking over' the NPC station will be taking away an equal amount from wallets of pilots, who has assets in that station, with a total sum equal to a cost of a TCU or an iHub

Whatever ridiculous that change may sound, I can give you some plus points for it!
- will encourage fights! (we have seen this plus point somewhere, didn't we?.. :)
- will make people to only occupy stations that they really need (aha, seems to be a duplicate again! :)
- will free some DB memory, as people will trash stuff that they don't really need (we always should take care of the servers, aren't we? :)

I guess, that will swap the opinions, and all the 0.0 pilots will say 'a great change, +1', while all the empire/low-sec would say "if I didn't notice that there is a rookie ship there -- why should I lose money? why should I stop doing what I wanted to do and run 20 jumps to take care of my assets?". And that is the case of a null-sec right now, which people, who don't live there, do not understand. It is not that "why don't you drop SOV where you don't use it?", it is "why would we drop SOV where nobody is going to use it?"

Personally, I would be happy to see some empty space getting occupied. But browsing through the comments here and in reddit I've seen the only alliance that actually tries to take over the space: the CORVOS and I really admire them for doing that. Which makes it somewhat 50/1 trolling/real null-sec venturing ratio. And trolling would not get any empty space occupied.

There is also one more problem with the current trolling possibility which I haven't seen to be discussed: it actually encourages blue-balling and no-atack agreements between large alliances. How is that, you would say? The point is that as a big alliance you would not start a war against another big alliance, that is capable to bring 10 waves of 1000+ troll-ceptors to reinforce the hell out of your entire SOV within one vulnerability window. And it is not really hard, will only make each pilot pay 500mil in case he lose all 10 ceptors. This even I, after a year of play, can handle. Not speaking of those, who play EVE for years.
One might argue: they can easily defend by splitting over their space and bla-bla whatever.. First, easy to say, hard to do. Second, it will work only until the point, where those 1000+ ceptor pilots will reform as one fleet and drop the hammer on one strategic and really important system. And here will be the deal then: will those who split make it in time to reform as one fleet to defend their assets? May be they will, but what if they won't? So, in my opinion, current SOV system increases risks of a large-scale war between SOV holding alliances, making them raise a question: why would you start it in the first place?

And I've got an example, where it worked out exactly as I think: we stopped our war with TRI and SOLAR and plussed each other. If you don't agree with that -- please give me an example of any descent scale war that is happening nowadays. I agree, that it is summer right now, everybody is new to the system and bla-bla whatever. Let's see then, if that will change in autumn or not.

I would agree on the initial statement that CCP forgot to include tool like who and where been attacked beside the alliance mail. I think most reasonable people would agree on that.

I do however disagree on paying 300m to attack something. Thats just ridiculous. If you think losing enotosis ships, plus the rest of your fleet it cheap then good for you! Only large alliances can afford 300m and god help you if you are going vs a monstruosity that is CFC. I can only think that unless you are planning a miraclous return of White Noise and the DRF, I dont see how someone can afford that .

People complain about not getting enough action and then people blaim it on sov. Where in reality everyone knows that the new sov has nothing to do with it. War creates content and entosis does that exactly. You have someone that does not like you and is willing to herass you to death and possibly take sov for themselves.

I think taking a station is more that enough punishment for someone not to be able to redock. Not to mention if you decide to destroy the local eco with alts in it. In the future maybe there will be stations that will blow up and you lose everything. That we will see. Another topic for the future

The whole point is if you dont live in that space, then it wont get entosed. So why not allow to entosis a system you dont live?
Forgive me for what i say here but we were roaming in your space using a wormhole several times. My god you got so much empty space its crazy. I dont know how or why you would put yourself in that pain. But I can tell you is that all that space should be used by someone. Why should you get to keep all that empty space esclusivelly? If you want to get more people there and blue ball them fine, thats your choice. You can always pay them to go away like CFC has done in the past.
I think Fozzy sov its a brilliant idea and CCP should have done this 5 years ago. Whats wrong is that alliances keep it and then complain about not wanting to defend it. That is wrong. Its the front lines in null sec. It must be very dangerous.

You guys have been in war for the last two years. I am sorry to say this but you guys did not prep for it and example CFC did.
CFC was very close like your space before. Lots and lots of empty space. Now they still have much but no where near you guys. You guys failed at prep and were too busy shooting each other. I dont want to be rude or harsh but is the truth.

Some people are obsessed with this "trolling". I would say this. If you think you are been trolled is cos you have casted a wider net that you cant control. Adapt. Its been always the modo in eve. Those that adapt do better than those that do not.

Well OP made it to CSM now it seems , so the ball's completely in his court now.

And if you only had to respond to reinforced systems you'd have a point.

Easy as in easy to take, genius. Read the rest of my quoted post there. I'd be happy to see people take inactive sov with rookie ships but require battleships to contest occupied sov.

I know you're not, you're one of his lackeys.

My biggest gripe with the current system is that one no longer needs to commit to an attack. Previously, attacking sovereignity required placing SBUs and actually putting some effort into your conquest.

While tedious, it usually meant that someone who went through the logistical and strategic effort of doing so had an intent of claiming sov. Currently, it means that anyone can harass a sov holding entity. Now, there isn't anything inherently bad about it.

You can easily imagine - and I suspect the developers imagined it that way when it was first conceived - a situation where a hostile gang rolls in, tries to harass a system, a local fleet deploys to go and fight them. Battle ensues, one side gets shot at - fun, nice, 'content' as people are fond of calling it.

However, this is not how it usually goes. We all know how risk-averse players are, and said hostile gang will be of no exception. When a response fleet rolls in and the attackers don't have the guarantee of victory, they'll simply bail. No content will be provided.

Rinse and repeat.

The stance on large battles I agree with whole-heartedly. The best fights I've been in never began as a consensual "Hail, mighty space foe! Let us meet here at this node, ignore the objective and instead let us joust!". No, they were fights when both sides rammed it down and fought no holds barred.

Those were the battles that mattered, they left the memories of frantic scrambling, pings of "GETIN!" bombarding you through comms, hundreds of pilots bridging into a fight, reinforcement fleets getting pipebombed by RnK.

And finally, the issue of scalability.

Now, don't get me wrong, it should take effort to capture or reinforce a system. The opposing force should be given time to field a defensive fleet.

However, a situation of "We control the grid, control pretty much everything and the entosis link is running on the structure. Now what?" "Now the entire fleet sits and holds their dicks in hands for an hour." somehow manages to achieve a level of boredom higher than POS/structure bashes.

In short, in pre-arranged lab conditions that don't factor in player behavior this system is good. That said, we're not in pre-arranged lab conditions.

Correction....

In previous they did not have to comit. They attacked and could leave or stay if they wanted. CFC is well know for troll sov aka
"I did not wanted that sov anyway" or "was looking for content not sov".
The same thing is happening here.

The bigest battles in eve for the most part have been escalations. One brings something, the other brigs something bigger and more and more etc. This in no doubt will happen sooner or later. If you guys did not blue ball each other it would happen more oftern but here we are...Stop blaiming CCP for your policies! You want content of massive scale fine, set a few of your blues to neut and let the slugfest begin. Dont then wait for it to happen or deploy to an enemies territory just like Razor and Init are doing.

With Dominion Sov, the effort to attack sov was proportional to the massive HP buffer of sov structures, which was present whether or not the owners of that sov were present. With Aegis Sov, the effort to attack sov is proportional to the effort being put in to active defense. Is there no defense? Then there should be no effort required to attack. Got Titans, supers and a subcap support fleet sitting next to your TCU? The effort required to attack it will be extreme. No little interceptor will stand a chance if they make an attempt.

Actually, I believe what the developers actually imagined isn't that a defense fleet "rolls in," rather they imagined the fleet is already there in system, making it exceedingly easy to chase off or kill a trollceptor, or dissuading a trollceptor from trying in the first place.

Those battles aren't gone. If somebody truly wants somebody else's sov, and the defender truly wants to keep their sov, you will get your large, pinged fights. (Except that the fights will be spread out, across multiple systems and multiple grids of a constellation, hopefully with no sustained TiDi. This is another explicitly stated design goal of CCP's new sov system.)



I honestly don't see how shooting a TCU with guns for an hour is any more exciting than shooting a TCU with an Entosis Link. I've helped take down a few POSes and POCOs. It's very dull.

It seems this has become Eve's version of Asymmetric warfare, where the defender would prefer symmetric warfare.
The fact that it is so annoying to major Sov holders, is the point. , they have to address it.

Its a kind of balance to Sov Sprawl. Eventually they will get annoyed enough to only hold Sov where they "have" to, not every where ever they can.