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War Decs: It's time for them to go away.

First post First post
Author
Roz Eternal
Doomheim
#101 - 2015-08-04 11:59:58 UTC
Stu Pendisdick wrote:
I keep seeing reply after reply about HS being a "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" when it seems to me that the *REAL* "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" is the vast number of R64 Moons, the production chains run from them, and the "Risk-Free" ratting held in a death grip by the "Big Blue Donut" of mutual non-aggression pacts.

Furthermore, it seems to me that those who howl the most about the "Risk-Free Isk Faucet" of HS are those very same nullbears.

Seems they don't like the competition.

When one considers that every T2 item purchased on the market directly funnels ISK into the alliance wallets of one of the "Big Three", it is easy to see where the "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" truly is.

You want to do something about the HS wardec system, do something *MEANINGFUL* about the stagnation in null, something that will cause massive wars and ship loss on a continual basis, forcing the recall of the alts now plaguing the game in search of "content".

If this is truly a PvP game, get rid of the ability of tens of thousands of nullbears to avoid the very thing they claim to want.

Forget "Burn Jita". Forget "Burn Amarr". Burn the Big Blue Donut.

Enough of the hypocrisy.


Yup, the real ISK faucets are the nullsec sov themeparks.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#102 - 2015-08-04 12:06:16 UTC
Stu Pendisdick wrote:
I keep seeing reply after reply about HS being a "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" when it seems to me that the *REAL* "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" is the vast number of R64 Moons, the production chains run from them, and the "Risk-Free" ratting held in a death grip by the "Big Blue Donut" of mutual non-aggression pacts.
…except that moons are neither risk-free nor ISK faucets, nor is T2 production a particularly direct funnel since there are half a dozen production steps between them. Also, the donut in question never actually existed except in the minds of the terminally uninformed.

Quote:
Burn the Big Blue Donut.
How do you burn a myth? Do you have to douse it in fablepetrol first?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#103 - 2015-08-04 12:10:12 UTC
Roz Eternal wrote:

Yup, the real ISK faucets are the nullsec sov themeparks.


If you want to try and claim that income consists only of raw isk, that would be true.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Stu Pendisdick
#104 - 2015-08-04 12:15:15 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Stu Pendisdick wrote:
I keep seeing reply after reply about HS being a "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" when it seems to me that the *REAL* "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" is the vast number of R64 Moons, the production chains run from them, and the "Risk-Free" ratting held in a death grip by the "Big Blue Donut" of mutual non-aggression pacts.
…except that moons are neither risk-free nor ISK faucets, nor is T2 production a particularly direct funnel since there are half a dozen production steps between them. Also, the donut in question never actually existed except in the minds of the terminally uninformed.

Quote:
Burn the Big Blue Donut.
How do you burn a myth? Do you have to douse it in fablepetrol first?


Yes, the Big Blue Donut is a myth.

You got me there.

Why, the wars and carnage in Null have never been at higher levels!

Sov is lost in huge swaths daily, ships lost by the hundreds hourly, the animosity between the "Big Three" is so thick you could cut it with the knives they use to stab each other with!

And those moons, who needs them? More of a pain in the ass then they are worth; hardly an "ISK printing machine"....

Now, seriously, who is it that is living in a fantasy?

smfh
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2015-08-04 12:17:54 UTC
War decs are fine. If you find yourself unable to function during a war your corp or alliance is lacking one or more essential elements (plan, isk or PvPrs) something as simple as a bunch of alts using TS or a chat channel while deccers get bored, isk to hire some help to gank deccers with a well laid bait, or some PvPrs to do same.

Alternatively recruit some low sec people into corp or low sec corp into alliance instead of all high sec and go hang with them for a bit, if you choose wisely locals will likely be allies and more than happy to help.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#106 - 2015-08-04 12:29:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Stu Pendisdick wrote:
Why, the wars and carnage in Null have never been at higher levels!
False dichotomy.

Quote:
Now, seriously, who is it that is living in a fantasy?
You are, since you think that moons are ISK faucets and since you think that there has ever been such a thing as “the blue donut”, in spite of the simple fact that the mechanics don't work that way and that some of the biggest wars and battles the game has ever seen have happened ever since the deluded started dribbling that myth (to say nothing of the numerous, huge alliances that have outright been eradicated by their ”blues”).
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#107 - 2015-08-04 12:38:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Marcus Alexzander wrote:
But do they realize it? I have to agree Indy toons should love war decs (and code for that matter, but again do they understand the eve market?)
Industrialists do — that's what make them industrialists rather than just some carebear who throws stuff on the market without any understanding of what they're doing.


From a CCP persepective I wouldn't care much about who exactly pays my bills or whether they understand what they're doing.

But I know nothing about real attrition to wardecs, just that I assume it's not as simple as you would like to make it (which seems to be the "everything great route").
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#108 - 2015-08-04 12:45:59 UTC
embrel wrote:
From a CCP persepective I wouldn't care much about who exactly pays my bills or whether they understand what they're doing.

You really should, for two reasons:

First, if your customers don't understand what they're doing, you've failed in your communication and your design, which means you've missed out on a large amount of customers and created needless aggravation among even more of them.

Second, it means your customers will keep providing feedback from a position of deep ignorance, which in turn means that you end up with a lot of unnecessary and potentially harmful noise that you have to filter out. If you don't, you may end up wasting resources on pursuing solutions to problems that don't exist and creating content that serves no purpose.
Archeras Umangiar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#109 - 2015-08-04 12:48:38 UTC
*popcorn*

wars are broke :O ?

didnt some peoples claim highsec was to safe?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#110 - 2015-08-04 13:06:18 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ex what? Afterbirth was it? Nobody cares.

Maybe you need glasses, but it's called Rebirth. incase you are blind.

Oh also, do you see the link to the picture under the 'Member Count' info on that link?

That suits you well Lol.
Afterbirth you say? Gotcha.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#111 - 2015-08-04 13:11:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Uh... no, you'll find it hard (see impossible) to anger me over a video game.
Anyone who took the time to read through the ISBoxer thread knows that to be completely untrue.

There was more butthurt there than a proctologist's convention.
lol, I know that you really want that to be true, but no, I'm not angered by video games, especially when it;s the banning of software I don't use. Like I said in that thread, you're happy to settle with CCP avoiding game mechanic improvements, I'm not. They need to fix the problem of PvE mechanics being overly simplistic and too easy to scale with alts. The funny thing is I think you'd agree with that point of view if you started reading threads, but that would mean you have to spend 5 minutes without trolling.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I don't think they intended wardecs to be used to mass farm noobs and industrial ships with ease, nor to make decently sized non-wardec corps extinct in highsec.
They intended the mechanic to be used. The mechanic itself is intended to remove the loathsome presence of CONCORD for a fee to serve as an isk sink. And that's what it's used for.
Of course they intended it to be used, genius. But they certainly didn't intend for it to be used the way it is. They've made this abundantly clear and the tears you guys will shed when CCP make changes to the mechanics will be hilarious. It'll be your own fault though for not rationally discussing the problems and potential fixes of the system. Instead you keep going "I LIKE KILLING NOOBS KEEP IT AS IT IS", so you're providing no constructive feedback on it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#112 - 2015-08-04 13:15:17 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
lol, I know that you really want that to be true, but no, I'm not angered by video games, especially when it;s the banning of software I don't use.


There is no word to describe this except "lol".




Quote:
]Of course they intended it to be used, genius. But they certainly didn't intend for it to be used the way it is.


Citation needed for that projection/obvious lie.

Quote:

They've made this abundantly clear


See the above.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#113 - 2015-08-04 13:25:59 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I'll remember this the next time you point out a 'flaw' in the game. This was a civilised discussion up until the point you, with your grand total of zero solo kills, tell me, with my decent solo combat record, that I need to HTFU. Wanna know how I get used to it? I dec anything and everything until it DOES go away. Got it? But no, you're right, I'm sure they added a completely redundant surrender option to wardecs because the issue with corp rolling is not going away. Let's wait and see, shall we?
Yeah, my main industrialist gets no kills. Big surprise there.

And yeah, We'll certainly see. They've already spoken last year that wardec are in their sights for the future. I bet it will involve the entosis link.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
You haven't been through my kb, have you? Do that before you accuse me of wanting easy kills.
OK...

You want easy kills. 47% of your killboard is made up of structures or ships incapable of returning fire, and no, that's not counting the 16% that are frigates. I'm not claiming to be an elite PvP MASTA, but then that's because I'm not interested in that playstyle. I gank a fair bit and I do a lot of trading, that's my playstyle. I'd much rather see mechanics change though to encourage people to socialise more than see mechanics like the wardec mechanics which actively push people into NPC corps.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
Now if you want to have a civilised discussion minus the elitism, I suggest you not accuse me of things that I don't do just to satisfy your preconceived stereotypes of high sec PVP'ers and wardeccers just looking for easy kills, because that's not the case at all. Of course, it suits your narrative and your agenda to deny and/or ignore that crucial little factor that debunks everything you expatiate, so that's not gonna happen. But if it does, then I might consider you worth my time and effort having an adult discussion.
You're a member of CODE. A group specifically designed to hassle noobs for tears. Are you're getting upset that someone's calling you out for exactly that?

At the end of the day, your crying that the tiniest of corps can evade wardecs. No matter how you spin it you need to HTFU mate. Grow a pair and dec people who have no interest in evading.

Wardecs are a broken mechanic. I know it, you know it and CCP damn sure knows it. They will be changing. You can either get on board and look realistically at how they can be changed to maintain a level of risk which adding much more reason for conflict or you can sit there crying about how evil the noobs are while changes get made around you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2015-08-04 13:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Stu Pendisdick wrote:
I keep seeing reply after reply about HS being a "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" when it seems to me that the *REAL* "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" is the vast number of R64 Moons, the production chains run from them, and the "Risk-Free" ratting held in a death grip by the "Big Blue Donut" of mutual non-aggression pacts.

Furthermore, it seems to me that those who howl the most about the "Risk-Free Isk Faucet" of HS are those very same nullbears.

Seems they don't like the competition.

When one considers that every T2 item purchased on the market directly funnels ISK into the alliance wallets of one of the "Big Three", it is easy to see where the "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" truly is.

You want to do something about the HS wardec system, do something *MEANINGFUL* about the stagnation in null, something that will cause massive wars and ship loss on a continual basis, forcing the recall of the alts now plaguing the game in search of "content".

If this is truly a PvP game, get rid of the ability of tens of thousands of nullbears to avoid the very thing they claim to want.

Forget "Burn Jita". Forget "Burn Amarr". Burn the Big Blue Donut.

Enough of the hypocrisy.

"Oh look, those people decided to get of their arses and went to that part of space least affected by arbitrary barriers and have built there what they wanted it to be, I demand CCP to build me same thing here because I keep misinterpreting what sandbox really is".
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#115 - 2015-08-04 13:29:23 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You're a member of CODE. A group specifically designed to hassle noobs for tears.
Really? When did that change? Last I saw, CODE mainly went after ships that newbies simply can't fly.

Quote:
Wardecs are a broken mechanic. I know it, you know it and CCP damn sure knows it.
How are they broken?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#116 - 2015-08-04 13:34:36 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I I gank a fair bit


No, you don't. No one who ganks has a clue who you are, other than "that loudmouth carebear on the forums".


Quote:
]You're a member of CODE. A group specifically designed to hassle noobs for tears.


I didn't realize noobs flew freighters and mackinaws. Or are you, like always, mad that people who play the game badly are allowed to die?

You're not here to help new players. You're just here to argue selfishly for your own gain, using them as a flag. It's ******* pathetic.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#117 - 2015-08-04 13:37:54 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Citation needed for that projection/obvious lie.
You're the one claiming they intended it to be used to gank noobs, so how about you sort out some proof of that one.

Better yet, watch what CCP does with wardecs once they do get around to changing them. Enjoy using your structure laser!

Tippia wrote:
Really? When did that change? Last I saw, CODE mainly went after ships that newbies simply can't fly.
What game have you been playing? They primarily go after ships that take 8 days to train into, with a vast number of them going after shuttles, rookie ships and pods traveling through the pipes too.

Tippia wrote:
Quote:
Wardecs are a broken mechanic. I know it, you know it and CCP damn sure knows it.
How are they broken?
They reward more for farming large numbers of easy targets rather than for taking on challenging targets. Because of this, most wardec groups go after non-PvP groups quite heavily, specifically looking out for people recruiting miners, industrialists and the like. What this leads to is the current status quo where groups who aren't just other wardec groups either stay really small or operate with NPC alts.

Take for example red-frog. They work exclusively with NPC haulers because if they were to try to operate as an alliance they'd have everyone and their uncle wardeccing them non-stop. I'd love to see the day when groups like that benefit from operating as a proper alliance and having to take care of their own security properly, and at the same time don't get instantly swamped and destroyed.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#118 - 2015-08-04 13:42:39 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
[You're the one claiming they intended it to be used to gank noobs, so how about you sort out some proof of that one.


I said nothing of the sort, that's just your usual dishonest ranting.

I said they were intended to be used, and their use is to remove CONCORD. They are working precisely as intended.

Well, unless you're the kind of despicable carebear who hates player freedom, anyway.


Quote:
]What game have you been playing? They primarily go after ships that take 8 days to train into, with a vast number of them going after shuttles, rookie ships and pods traveling through the pipes too.


Because, of course, only new players fly shuttles? Roll

I bet Lucas genuinely thinks that ships that take less than a month to train into should be immune to other players. Although based on his posting, I'm pretty sure he thinks PvP should not exist in highsec, that way he doesn't have to worry about all of his multiboxed miners.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#119 - 2015-08-04 13:45:14 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Because, of course, only new players fly shuttles? Roll

I bet Lucas genuinely thinks that ships that take less than a month to train into should be immune to other players. Although based on his posting, I'm pretty sure he thinks PvP should not exist in highsec, that way he doesn't have to worry about all of his multiboxed miners.


But remember, he is 110% totally not in any way an SJW type. So don't be misled by his choice of posting topics!

Twisted
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#120 - 2015-08-04 13:45:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, you don't. No one who ganks has a clue who you are, other than "that loudmouth carebear on the forums".
Incorrect. I was ganking last night (only a couple) and most of this week. I think it's 70 solo kills on one char and 40 on the other in the last 7 days. I'd put you out of your misery and give you names but I'm honestly curious to see if you can figure it out.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I didn't realize noobs flew freighters and mackinaws. Or are you, like always, mad that people who play the game badly are allowed to die?

You're not here to help new players. You're just here to argue selfishly for your own gain, using them as a flag. It's ******* pathetic.
Let's ignore capsules here because they are the vast majority and could potentially be any ship type originally.
34.4% mining barges
9.7% frigates
8.6% shuttles
4.4% rookie ships
4.1% industrials

Yeah. Hardcore veterans there.

You're right though, there are 19% exhumers, so 19% of your alliance's kills are players at least 40 (ish) days into the game. Real pros I'm sure.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.