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Why is it like this?

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Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-08-03 15:01:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Back in the days of loot spew exploration people could show up and steal your goodies, but you could also shoot them with their suspect status.

Nowadays it's a container you just loot, what makes me angry is if you did not hack it YOU CANNOT OPEN IT! Why are we trying to make the game easymode here? I had ships specifically to nab anyone who bothered to loot from me after some asian did so whilst I was unarmed and stuck around a bit because he figured I was unarmed.


I would say let people adapt? Instead of just forcing easymode. There were two other explorers in two highsec sites. I had prepared to scram them if they tried, the thing is it looked like one of them tried multiple times, because he zoomed to the cans I was hacking instead of an empty one more than once. Afterwords I tried to open someone elses hacked can and it only tells me I need specalized equipment, but wont let me hack an already hacked can. You also cannot hack a can already being hacked, so now it's down to everything else where they likely expect you to gank if you want to do anything about it, and you can't prepare for anyone who might steal from you becauuuse??? They can't.

Are you just planning on slowly removing suspect status altogether? Stop making highsec safer in the dumbest of ways. When exploration GETS crowded, fighting between each other for the loot is one way to take care of things, but uhm no.... We can't.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#2 - 2015-08-03 15:05:55 UTC
shoot them after they have looted
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-08-03 15:06:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Tam Arai wrote:
shoot them after they have looted



You can't. CCP changed it where you cannot loot the cans if you weren't the hacker. So you cannot shoot anyone because they cannot go suspect.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-08-03 15:10:46 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Tam Arai wrote:
shoot them after they have looted



You can't. CCP changed it where you cannot loot the cans if you weren't the hacker. So you cannot shoot anyone because they cannot go suspect.

Leave highsec. Anyway you can still do suspect baiting, bumping them, stealing from highsec cans is pointless profit-wise.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#5 - 2015-08-03 15:11:38 UTC
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2015-08-03 15:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hal Morsh wrote:
You also cannot hack a can already being hacked, so now it's down to everything else where they likely expect you to gank if you want to do anything about it, and you can't prepare for anyone who might steal from you becauuuse??? They can't.
So what's the problem? Since they can't steal from you, there's no need prepare for it, and there's not really anything to “do anything about”. If they beat you to the loot, then they… well… beat you to the loot, so it's obviously theirs because they earned it — they're not stealing from you.

Hal Morsh wrote:
Tam Arai wrote:
shoot them after they have looted

You can't.
Yes you can. Just switch your safety to red.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-08-03 15:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Tippia wrote:
if they beat you to the loot, then they… well… beat you to the loot, so it's obviously theirs because they earned it



What if I told you I was the one getting the loot? Because I earned it?

So should the mission runners deserve the faction rats they killed because..... "they earned it"?

The speed of being the first to plant your hacking module down is not the issue. CCP keeps padding highsec so the min/maxers can't hurt themselfs.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#8 - 2015-08-03 15:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Hal Morsh wrote:
What if I told you I was the one getting too the loot? Because I earned it?
Then nothing. It still doesn't explain what the problem is or why you're talking about theft.

Quote:
The speed of things is not the issue. CCP keeps padding highsec so the min/maxers can't hurt themselfs.
The speed of things is the entire issue. You're competing in a mini-profession centred on who's quicker on the ball — he who gets the goods first gets the goods and any theft is self-imposed. CCP has made it consistent with similar professions, where theft also is a non-issue.

If they're slow, you beat them by opening up more cans (or just more sites) while they're struggling with their one.
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-08-03 15:26:44 UTC
Isn't the loot you get from those HS sites worth almost nothing? I know that's slightly besides the point...
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-08-03 15:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Tippia wrote:
Hal Morsh wrote:

What if I told you I was the one getting too the loot? Because I earned it?

Then nothing. It still doesn't explain what the problem is or why you're talking about theft.


The speed of things is not the issue. CCP keeps padding highsec so the min/maxers can't hurt themselfs.
Tippia wrote:
The speed of things is the entire issue. You're competing in a mini-profession centred on who's quicker on the ball — he who gets the goods first gets the goods and any theft is self-imposed. CCP has made it consistent with similar professions, where theft also is a non-issue.


If they're slow, you beat them by opening up more cans (or just more sites) while they're struggling with their one.




In low or null, the only thing people show up to your site for is to blow you up, and if you happen to have a faction blueprint they loot that.

In highsec you can't just shoot people, but there was the option of theft. Which changes things quite a bit, fits go for max scanning and max hacking in stead of being prepared to blow up the other explorer if he gets greedy. People find out they can't steal from someone with better hacking and can't be faster than otherwise. The only option then is to give up right?

For some reason CCP sees to remove any middle ground. You either commit an act that gets you indefinitely Concorded or nothing at all. Wardecs don't fix much either.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2015-08-03 15:41:46 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
In low or null, the only thing people show up to your site for is to blow you up, and if you happen to have a faction blueprint they loot that.

In highsec you can't just shoot people, but there was the option of theft.
Setting aside that you can still just shoot people… yes? So? That's highsec: aggression comes at a cost and you are making a bet that other people's miserliness is enough to keep them from shooting you. As it happens, the loot from highsec mini-profession sites is generally so poor that it keeps that miserliness threshold high.

Quote:
Which changes things quite a bit, fits go for max scanning and max hacking in stead of being prepared to blow up the other explorer if he gets greedy. People find out they can't steal from someone with better hacking and can't be faster than otherwise. The only option then is to give up right?
The option to blow them up is still there. The option to be faster is still there. The option to pick a different can is still there. If you choose to do nothing, then yes, the option to give up is the one left you've chosen, but that's a pretty worthless tautology.

Unless you go for the highly effective wardec option, your competition within the profession is a matter of your ability within the profession — same as with the other harvesting activities. What's so problematic about that?
Marcus Alexzander
#12 - 2015-08-03 15:44:17 UTC
Leave Hi-Sec. You can do everything you are talking about and more in low/null. And they keep padding Hi-sec because, when you get down to it, Hi-sec is basically the starter zone.

Blood and Toil
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-08-03 17:22:20 UTC
Someone was willing to steal my loot and I was willing to try and blow him up. Now isn't that called content? I just don't see why the mechanic of theft couldn't have stayed.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2015-08-03 17:35:23 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Someone was willing to steal my loot and I was willing to try and blow him up. Now isn't that called content? I just don't see why the mechanic of theft couldn't have stayed.

Because it's not particularly necessary and because it breaks the mould of how the harvesting professions work.

Also, if that's the content you're after, you can still have it.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#15 - 2015-08-03 17:40:12 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Back in the days of loot spew exploration people could show up and steal your goodies, but you could also shoot them with their suspect status.

Nowadays it's a container you just loot, what makes me angry is if you did not hack it YOU CANNOT OPEN IT! Why are we trying to make the game easymode here? I had ships specifically to nab anyone who bothered to loot from me after some asian did so whilst I was unarmed and stuck around a bit because he figured I was unarmed.


I would say let people adapt? Instead of just forcing easymode. There were two other explorers in two highsec sites. I had prepared to scram them if they tried, the thing is it looked like one of them tried multiple times, because he zoomed to the cans I was hacking instead of an empty one more than once. Afterwords I tried to open someone elses hacked can and it only tells me I need specalized equipment, but wont let me hack an already hacked can. You also cannot hack a can already being hacked, so now it's down to everything else where they likely expect you to gank if you want to do anything about it, and you can't prepare for anyone who might steal from you becauuuse??? They can't.

Are you just planning on slowly removing suspect status altogether? Stop making highsec safer in the dumbest of ways. When exploration GETS crowded, fighting between each other for the loot is one way to take care of things, but uhm no.... We can't.



I thought you could shoot anyone in null or lowsec?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#16 - 2015-08-03 17:43:50 UTC
Please also remember the reason the loot spew went away: Most all explorers hated it. Not due to theft, but because it was annoying.

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Hallvardr
#17 - 2015-08-03 18:02:15 UTC
OP ... as others have said .. you're the one stealing (wanting to)... you shoot them and take what's left. Unless .. you're the one crying for easymode .. ah .. that's it .. YOU want the easy mode.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-08-03 18:45:37 UTC
Hallvardr wrote:
OP ... as others have said .. you're the one stealing (wanting to)... you shoot them and take what's left. Unless .. you're the one crying for easymode .. ah .. that's it .. YOU want the easy mode.



How is it me wanting the easy mode? They only put themselfs in that place by stealing, and it's not an often situation to begin with.

I would also need an alt for the easymode you speak of. Concord will still kill you for 15 minutes before you can bother trying to loot it.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2015-08-03 18:52:14 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
How is it me wanting the easy mode?
Rather than seeking out the kind of environment you're talking about, you want fights to happen where everything is set up in your favour.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-08-03 19:01:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Tippia wrote:
Hal Morsh wrote:
How is it me wanting the easy mode?
Rather than seeking out the kind of environment you're talking about, you want fights to happen where everything is set up in your favour.



But how would it be my favor? It works both ways.

I can't really go to low or null because I don't have a huge wallet and an army of alts, and people really don't like it when you learn EVE on their killboards. So any excitement where I live would be great. I used to harass ice miners and coax them into their combat ships, which isn't Easymode because I've lost a few that way too.

What i'm saying is I can't compete against Russians camping gates or a bunch of roaming drunk brits. So removing places to compete with similar minded PVP incompetents is upsetting.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
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