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Two Birds One Stone - Two Null Sec Problems Solved with One Change
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Sigras
Conglomo
#1 - 2015-08-03 10:36:22 UTC
The Problems
1. PvP players have no way to make ISK / no reason to exist on a day to day basis - Lets face it, once you take the space, there isnt any reason for your PvP groups to form up or actually defend the space. Roaming gangs pose no threat to your moon income, and any true siege on your towers is going to cause alliance wide pings.

2. Small gangs have no way to threaten Moon Income - when the majority of the income of your enemy is untouchable guerilla warfare is nearly impossible.

The Solutions
1. Move Moon Miners Outside the Shield - Obviously their HP stats would need a bit of a bump, but the general idea is to allow groups the ability to disrupt an alliance's moon income without committing tens of billions of ISK to the field

2. Add Moon Materials to Anoms/Signatures/Rings/ETC - Adding another source of moon materials would be necessary as the constant harassment would mean possibly significantly reduced moon production. These anoms would act as a "pressure release valve" in case prices got too high. This would also reduce cartel efforts like OTEC in the future.

Objections
1. But Towers are Going Away in Favor of Structures - True, but this system could easily be adapted to fit the deploy-able structure model with some sort of Entosis mechanic. In fact the Entosis mechanic might even be better than HP because you could set it to a static 20 minutes to incap or something like that.

2. Why Not Just tie Moon Mining to Sov? - I had thought about that idea, but this reduces the effectiveness of the change as small gangs cannot disrupt the income anymore. This puts the moon income back behind a reinforced timer which is a terrible decision, and not conductive to guerilla warfare.

Thoughts?
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#2 - 2015-08-03 10:43:10 UTC
Sigras wrote:
The Problems
1. PvP players have no way to make ISK / no reason to exist on a day to day basis


what?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lu Ziffer
Balanced Unity
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-08-03 10:50:16 UTC
The next change to POSs will be their removal or something like it.
It makes absoutly no sense to come up with anything for them because they are a dead horse on life support.

Moonincome is brought up since its introduction but people most never calculated the value of them or how much an alliance makes with them in relation to what they are spending. If a alliance has a 50mil ISK per month per character tax they earn a lot more.

There are corporations who have a corptax and payout some of there income to there PVP players.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2015-08-03 12:22:46 UTC
I am all in favor of changing the way T2 materials are gathered, but your ideas seem very out of touch with the current meta. I feel like you are stuck back in 2011. Have you been away from the game for a while?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-08-03 12:47:54 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Sigras wrote:
The Problems
1. PvP players have no way to make ISK / no reason to exist on a day to day basis


what?

Something something you are not a PvPer if you've ever touched PvE content. Even if you washed your hands afterwards.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2015-08-03 12:51:14 UTC
Sigras wrote:
The Problems
1. PvP players have no way to make ISK / no reason to exist on a day to day basis - Lets face it, once you take the space, there isnt any reason for your PvP groups to form up or actually defend the space. Roaming gangs pose no threat to your moon income, and any true siege on your towers is going to cause alliance wide pings.

2. Small gangs have no way to threaten Moon Income - when the majority of the income of your enemy is untouchable guerilla warfare is nearly impossible.

The Solutions
1. Move Moon Miners Outside the Shield - Obviously their HP stats would need a bit of a bump, but the general idea is to allow groups the ability to disrupt an alliance's moon income without committing tens of billions of ISK to the field

2. Add Moon Materials to Anoms/Signatures/Rings/ETC - Adding another source of moon materials would be necessary as the constant harassment would mean possibly significantly reduced moon production. These anoms would act as a "pressure release valve" in case prices got too high. This would also reduce cartel efforts like OTEC in the future.

Objections
1. But Towers are Going Away in Favor of Structures - True, but this system could easily be adapted to fit the deploy-able structure model with some sort of Entosis mechanic. In fact the Entosis mechanic might even be better than HP because you could set it to a static 20 minutes to incap or something like that.

2. Why Not Just tie Moon Mining to Sov? - I had thought about that idea, but this reduces the effectiveness of the change as small gangs cannot disrupt the income anymore. This puts the moon income back behind a reinforced timer which is a terrible decision, and not conductive to guerilla warfare.

Thoughts?


Or do non of that and make it so you need a TCU active to have the moon miner online.. there by making lowsec moons more valuable as you can hide them a bit better.
Lu Ziffer
Balanced Unity
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2015-08-03 13:02:32 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Or do non of that and make it so you need a TCU active to have the moon miner online.. there by making lowsec moons more valuable as you can hide them a bit better.

??? Its 2015 there are lists where to find the good moons so there is no hiding.
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#8 - 2015-08-04 00:07:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyalnara
Sigras wrote:
The Problems

1> PvP players exist purely to PvP. Why? Because PvP. PvP only reason is that exploding ships is fun, and even more when it's not yours.

2> Moon rentability is diminished by fuel costs. Fuel costs are diminished by ownership of the TCU. Which means that moon rentability is tied (even if loosely) to sov. Want to threaten those mining moons? Lower their rentability by taking system ownership.

Sigras wrote:
The Solutions

1> Unless system is permanently cyno-jammed, you'll want to look out for those afk-cloaking guys, they could hot-drop dreads on that moon miner mod. No counter except permanent cyno-jamming all systems involved in moon-mining. (Adding EHP will not solve anything, they'll just jump more dreads/bombers. Reducing crafting price may have an impact by allowing for easer replacing.

2> Will just be farmed as much as possible, driving prices down, and making moon mining non-profitable, because fuel and module-replacement costs.

Sigras wrote:
Objections

1> Just remove moon-mining right now, there are huge stockpiles everywhere anyway.

2> It is already tied, as i said earlier. If you want more, just make it so that you can only online moon miners if your alliance got sov over the system, just like the super-cap assembly lines.


EDIT: also, a thread title should describe the content of said thread. May be you should learn how to post on forums before coming back.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.