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Customer Support lifting previous restrictions regarding war decs

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Izziee
University of Izziee
#481 - 2012-01-01 21:33:31 UTC
Quote:
Thought your sort were banned from posting here? Did you get permission to post here from your owner?

Did you drop corp for the one war that eve university has had in the last few months? You might as well leave them when wardecs are repaired as the wars against eve university will be never ending.


Nope. The reason I left has nothing to do with you, and was nothing to do with the war, however it did reinforce the timing and I dropped corp because I'm not going to be forced to sit in a station without being in a fleet, but war or no war I still would have been leaving temporarily (Hadn't even been in there long anyway). Is that you're business, why no, no it isn't. Could I give a crap what you think? No, no I couldn't. Do you sound hurt that I have an opinion? Yes, yes you do.

Yes, I do find it amusing, the biggest QQ'ers I see on this forum are the griefers, something you can't really argue with, at all. Since you know, you don't influence my opinion in the slightest (Reinforcing it though). I think those who legitimately want to wage war with a corp because they generally hate them, or been annoyed by them should be allowed tbh, but those sad sad little griefers that only do it because it's easy kills I think are pathetic. Each to their own though. Like others have said, they should be forced to go to 0.0. It's ironic, they are the ones crying how eve should all be about risk, yet too scared to go off to null sec, what they want is risk for the carebares and those that don't fight back - NOT for themselves.

And ofc, that excludes those who may take an easy kill but actually have the balls to fight a fair battle and/or with the odds against them. It primarily includes those who only look for targets that can't fight back. Are you upset about it? Diddums.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#482 - 2012-01-01 22:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Izziee wrote:
Yes, I do find it amusing, the biggest QQ'ers I see on this forum are the griefers, something you can't really argue with, at all.
…aside from the fact that most QQ come from people who feel personally slighted by being PvPed in a PvP game and who incorrectly and ignorantly label other players who engage in legitimate gameplay as “griefers” just because they can't comprehend that the gameplay in question is, indeed, 100% legitimate.
Quote:
Like others have said, they should be forced to go to 0.0.
Nope. The game doesn't work that way, and forcing them to do so would in fact break the game. It's a pretty stupid suggestion that only someone who has no clue about what makes the game work would make.

Anyway, the fact remains: this policy change breaks game mechanics and renders important assets unassailable — it is therefore an inherently bad idea, and needs to be reversed (or the mechanics need to be changed to still allow for the destruction of those assets).
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#483 - 2012-01-01 23:32:32 UTC
Izziee wrote:
... but those sad sad little griefers that only do it because it's easy kills I think are pathetic.

Who the hell doesn't look for easy kills? Do you think Goonswarm attacked White Noise because they thought it was going to be a challenge? If you or your corp or your alliance are "easy kills", then it's up to you to learn not to be. It's not the role of CCP to protect you with mechanics.
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#484 - 2012-01-01 23:42:58 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Izziee wrote:
... but those sad sad little griefers that only do it because it's easy kills I think are pathetic.

Who the hell doesn't look for easy kills? Do you think Goonswarm attacked White Noise because they thought it was going to be a challenge? If you or your corp or your alliance are "easy kills", then it's up to you to learn not to be. It's not the role of CCP to protect you with mechanics.


It's also not CCP's role to make it super-easy and super-cheap for you to do that.
Izziee
University of Izziee
#485 - 2012-01-01 23:47:55 UTC
Quote:
…aside from the fact that most QQ come from people who feel personally slighted by being PvPed in a PvP game and who incorrectly and ignorantly label other players who engage in legitimate gameplay as “griefers” just because they can't comprehend that the gameplay in question is, indeed, 100% legitimate.


Blah blah blah. It;s not a pvp game, it's a sandbox. There's a big difference, educate yourself. It's a PvP game for YOU, while for others, it might be a PvE game. For me, it's a game where I do whatever I feel is fun at the time without getting worked up over internet spaceships.

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Izziee wrote:
... but those sad sad little griefers that only do it because it's easy kills I think are pathetic.

Who the hell doesn't look for easy kills? Do you think Goonswarm attacked White Noise because they thought it was going to be a challenge? If you or your corp or your alliance are "easy kills", then it's up to you to learn not to be. It's not the role of CCP to protect you with mechanics.



There's a difference, as I already stated. Primarily ONLY going for easy kills, running at the sight of something fair, is pathetic. Staying around in high sec never venturing in to anything that requires higher risk is completely different from players going for easy kills while actually participating in any combat is completely different. Those who only go for easy kills, while whining like babies how it should be about risk, yet incapable of taking themselves to a real PvP zone, is not only ironic, it's pathetic. I don't care how people play, but I will have an opinion on it, and that, I find amusing how the biggest crybabies are that type of player. What's your problem with me thinking that, not that it matters either way, since I'll continue to think that. Don't need to mention goons to me since I don't know much about them, or care to. To me, their just other players in my game, and I've never heard of white noise so it all makes no difference to me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#486 - 2012-01-01 23:54:08 UTC
Izziee wrote:
Blah blah blah. It;s not a pvp game, it's a sandbox. There's a big difference
No. It's a PvP game because it's a sandbox. Being a sandbox, it lets everyone do what they want (within the rules of the game), which includes things you don't want them to do. In addition, everything in EVE is built around player vs. player competition in various forms, and the whole thing centres around a war-economy-driven market where demand is generated through destruction of property.

No matter what you do, you are always PvP:ing, and no matter what, you are a part of the war machinery. Being able to skip those parts (like this policy allows you to do) is inherently bad for the game because it breaks or obsoletes a number of mechanics that keep the game rolling.

Oh, and there is roughly zero PvE in EVE — it's all PvP in one way or another.
Izziee
University of Izziee
#487 - 2012-01-02 00:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Izziee
Tippia wrote:
Izziee wrote:
Blah blah blah. It;s not a pvp game, it's a sandbox. There's a big difference
No. It's a PvP game because it's a sandbox. Being a sandbox, it lets everyone do what they want (within the rules of the game), which includes things you don't want them to do. In addition, everything in EVE is built around player vs. player competition in various forms, and the whole thing centres around a war-economy-driven market where demand is generated through destruction of property.

No matter what you do, you are always PvP:ing, and no matter what, you are a part of the war machinery. Being able to skip those parts (like this policy allows you to do) is inherently bad for the game because it breaks or obsoletes a number of mechanics that keep the game rolling.

Oh, and there is roughly zero PvE in EVE — it's all PvP in one way or another.


Er, no. A PvP game would imply there isn't anything beyond that. There is, missioning, exploration etc etc etc. I don't play much lately, but today I logged on, did a couple missions, and logged off. There was no PvP involved what so ever, and no, I didn't sell anything since I rarely bother to salvage. Oh, and I spoke a bit to some people in channels...you're going to try and make some excuse for that being PvP as well?

So no.

Or like I said - blah blah blah.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#488 - 2012-01-02 00:33:00 UTC
Izziee wrote:

Blah blah blah. It;s not a pvp game, it's a sandbox.


It's a Multiplayer Sandbox. You can do whatever you like, I can do whatever I like. If those to interests interfere with each other, we have to sort things out without the game doing it for us.

A detailed explanation of what I mean.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Izziee
University of Izziee
#489 - 2012-01-02 00:35:49 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Izziee wrote:

Blah blah blah. It;s not a pvp game, it's a sandbox.


It's a Multiplayer Sandbox. You can do whatever you like, I can do whatever I like. If those to interests interfere with each other, we have to sort things out without the game doing it for us.

A detailed explanation of what I mean.


Keep telling yourself that.

It's whatever the individual makes. (For the record, I've always been a PvP player in every game but I also do PvE when I want me time, and guess what, I do just fine in eve when I don't wish to interact with anyone)
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#490 - 2012-01-02 00:41:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Izziee wrote:
(For the record, I've always been a PvP player in every game but I also do PvE when I want me time, and guess what, I do just fine in eve when I don't wish to interact with anyone)

Those times when you choose to play "solo", it's not because you flicked some no-PvP switch in the game, it's because you've taken special measures not too.

It's a sandbox ... you can try to play solo all you want, and most times you'll be successful. But if someone comes along and is determined to drag you into their little world, they are going to. You just have to deal with that. And expect that it can and will happen, probably when you least want it to happen. The game should not make any special accommodations for those times when you just don't want to deal with other people.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#491 - 2012-01-02 00:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Izziee wrote:
Er, no. A PvP game would imply there isn't anything beyond that.
Bad news: there isn't. Unless you refuse to do anything, the game simply doesn't allow you to not PvP.

Everything you do in EVE (with two exceptions) is done in competition — player versus player. The whole thing revolves around the most vicious PvP arena of them all: the market.

The two exceptions are: clicking the “request mission” button, and clicking the “complete mission” button. Everything outside and in-between is subject to that PvP competition (which means that the latter of those two is actually subject to — or at least inhibited by — PvP as well). Even the things that might look like PvE (because you're shooting at rats) is in fact PvP because you're stealing that resource from other players.

So yes, the game is 100% PvP.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#492 - 2012-01-02 00:44:13 UTC
Izziee wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Izziee wrote:

Blah blah blah. It;s not a pvp game, it's a sandbox.


It's a Multiplayer Sandbox. You can do whatever you like, I can do whatever I like. If those to interests interfere with each other, we have to sort things out without the game doing it for us.

A detailed explanation of what I mean.


Keep telling yourself that.

It's whatever the individual makes. (For the record, I've always been a PvP player in every game but I also do PvE when I want me time, and guess what, I do just fine in eve when I don't wish to interact with anyone)


I agree with you. It's whatever the group of individuals called the playerbase (and their individual, often competing interests) make of the game. It's what you like to do an what I like to do all smashed together. And sometimes when you smash things together, someone gets a black eye. Eve is the collected Black Eyes of all its players.

And unless you built everything you fly, and have never touched the market or contracts, you're presence as an economic being means you're interacting with people (missioning drives the value of Isk and LP down, Mining does the same for minerals, etc, etc)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Izziee
University of Izziee
#493 - 2012-01-02 00:49:08 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Izziee wrote:
(For the record, I've always been a PvP player in every game but I also do PvE when I want me time, and guess what, I do just fine in eve when I don't wish to interact with anyone)

Those times when you choose to play "solo", it's not because you flicked some no-PvP switch in the game, it's because you've taken special measures not too.

It's a sandbox ... you can try to play solo all you want, and most times you'll be successful. But if someone comes along and is determined to drag you into their little world, they are going to. You just have to deal with that. And expect that it can and will happen, probably when you least want it to happen. The game should make any special accommodations for those times when you just don't want to deal with other people.


Crappy forum ate my post, so I will make a briefer version.

I didn't PvP today, I PvE'd, thus, it does not make this game a PvP only game like some try to state, if it were, I wouldn't have PvE'd. But I did.

The other day, I PvP'd, that only means it's a game of freedom and choice, because I chose to.

I also assume you mean it SHOULDN'T make any special accommodations to players, and not once have I said it should. It doesn't however make greifer tears any less amusing. I also don't think it should, because that's exactly what I enjoy about eve, the complete freedom to do what a player wishes to do.
Izziee
University of Izziee
#494 - 2012-01-02 00:51:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Izziee wrote:
Er, no. A PvP game would imply there isn't anything beyond that.
Bad news: there isn't. Unless you refuse to do anything, the game simply doesn't allow you to not PvP.

Everything you do in EVE (with two exceptions) is done in competition — player versus player. The whole thing revolves around the most vicious PvP arena of them all: the market.

The two exceptions are: clicking the “request mission” button, and clicking the “complete mission” button. Everything outside and in-between is subject to that PvP competition (which means that the latter of those two is actually subject to — or at least inhibited by — PvP as well). Even the things that might look like PvE (because you're shooting at rats) is in fact PvP because you're stealing that resource from other players.

So yes, the game is 100% PvP.



Once again, wrong. I already told you, today I PvE'd, I didn't have any engagement with another player. So your statement goes right out the window. Do I say that will always happen? Nope, but I'm not against PvP so it doesn't effect me when it does. However, being a PvP SERVER doesn't make it a PvP GAME.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#495 - 2012-01-02 00:51:05 UTC
Izziee wrote:
I also assume you mean it SHOULDN'T make any special accommodations to players.
Yes. I edited my post to change my typo while you were replying.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#496 - 2012-01-02 00:52:48 UTC
Izziee wrote:
That's exactly what I enjoy about eve, the complete freedom to do what a player wishes to do.
So, why are you whining? You have freedom to try to do what you want, and other people have the freedom to try to kill you ("griefing" as you would incorrectly refer to it.)
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#497 - 2012-01-02 00:56:57 UTC
Izziee wrote:
Once again, wrong. I already told you, today I PvE'd, I didn't have any engagement with another player. So your statement goes right out the window. Do I say that will always happen? Nope, but I'm not against PvP so it doesn't effect me when it does. However, being a PvP SERVER doesn't make it a PvP GAME.

Let's pretend you're a US Marine in Afghanistan. Just because you got to eat your lunch, outside the base, in a field, without any Taliban taking shots at you, doesn't mean you're not in a war zone.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#498 - 2012-01-02 00:59:41 UTC
Izziee wrote:
Once again, wrong. I already told you, today I PvE'd, I didn't have any engagement with another player.
…except that in doing so, you competed against other players. So you PvPed. You can tell me as many times as you like that you “PvE'd”, but that doesn't change the fact that you did so in competition with other players, for the simple reason that the game doesn't allow you to not do so.

Just because you got lucky and no-one stole your stuff or mission completion items, and just because you chose not to pick some stuff up doesn't mean you weren't competing — it just means you willingly forfeited the competition. The game does not have instancing; you are never in your own disconnected little bubble; you are always affecting the shared world we all play in. So there is no way to escape the PvP other than doing absolutely nothing.
Izziee
University of Izziee
#499 - 2012-01-02 01:00:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Izziee
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Izziee wrote:
That's exactly what I enjoy about eve, the complete freedom to do what a player wishes to do.
So, why are you whining? You have freedom to try to do what you want, and other people have the freedom to try to kill you ("griefing" as you would incorrectly refer to it.)


I'm not the one who is whining. Not once.

Unless you assume by me saying I find something amusing, whining? Which..is pretty whack if you ask me.

And my analogy of griefing is just fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Griefing

If someone sets out to ruin someone elses day for funzies, that's griefing. Am I against it? No, Eve wouldn't be as we know it without it. Do I think it's pathetic? It completely depends. As I stated, in the case of a player who sets out to do this, while themselves, being to cowardly to actually have any risk themselves, then yes, very much so. I think it's extremely pathetic, but if the player griefs while actually putting themselves into risk (be it by PvPing in null or whatever) then no, nothing wrong with that at all. (I include griefing in high sec in that analogy just for the record)

It's called cowards.
Izziee
University of Izziee
#500 - 2012-01-02 01:02:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Izziee
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Izziee wrote:
Once again, wrong. I already told you, today I PvE'd, I didn't have any engagement with another player. So your statement goes right out the window. Do I say that will always happen? Nope, but I'm not against PvP so it doesn't effect me when it does. However, being a PvP SERVER doesn't make it a PvP GAME.

Let's pretend you're a US Marine in Afghanistan. Just because you got to eat your lunch, outside the base, in a field, without any Taliban taking shots at you, doesn't mean you're not in a war zone.


Exactly, read what you said, and scroll up and read what I said.

He's in a war ZONE, but he isn't at war.

Just like I said, it's a PvP server, but it's NOT a PvP game (well, it is, but it is also a PvE game..I.E, has a bunch of freedom) Or, sandbox.

Quote:
…except that in doing so, you competed against other players. So you PvPed. You can tell me as many times as you like that you “PvE'd”, but that doesn't change the fact that you did so in competition with other players, for the simple reason that the game doesn't allow you to not do so.

Just because you got lucky and no-one stole your stuff or mission completion items, and just because you chose not to pick some stuff up doesn't mean you weren't competing — it just means you willingly forfeited the competition. The game does not have instancing; you are never in your own disconnected little bubble; you are always affecting the shared world we all play in. So there is no way to escape the PvP other than doing absolutely nothing.


Still all I read is blah blah blah. Why? Because today I didn't interact with a single player while doing missions. I interacted with (and nothing BUT) NPC's. So, PvP? Nope. PvE. Period.