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More then 5 Hardeners on a POS have no effect anymore ???
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Samuel Sachs
#1 - 2015-08-01 20:01:34 UTC
Hi,

a couple days ago i discussed with some guys my POS set up and they was laughing about my 10 hardeners from each resist, one of them told me this is not usefull because more then 5 have no effect, i asked him why do he thinks this and he complained he was reading this somewhere but did not remember where.

I put all my THM hardener online and made a screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/sqskjkA.png

May be somebody can tell me more about this ?

Regards

SheetMon_V2 a gdocs spreadsheet what pulls lots of stuff, feel free to make a copy :-)
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#2 - 2015-08-01 22:29:41 UTC
Looks like you just found out about stacking penalties.
Samuel Sachs
#3 - 2015-08-01 23:45:27 UTC
its not about stacking penalties, guys told me you can see the resists with 10 hardeners, but you dont get the resist in real and i am confused about because i am not sure now what is true.

SheetMon_V2 a gdocs spreadsheet what pulls lots of stuff, feel free to make a copy :-)
stoicfaux
#4 - 2015-08-02 07:43:40 UTC
http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking#Penalty_Table

The 7th+ modules are less than 1% effective. Your friends are technically wrong, but they're also effectively correct.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#5 - 2015-08-02 08:48:00 UTC
And that's 1% of an effect which tends to zero anyway...

Still... scouting it and seeing forty hardeners... How bored would you have to be to think sieging it would be a good idea?
Valkin Mordirc
#6 - 2015-08-02 10:19:24 UTC
Funny thing is if the penalty didn't exists. Your pos's resists would be over 100% which enacts a failsafe in the game code that means anything can one shot your pos. 


#DeleteTheWeak
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-08-02 11:34:56 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Funny thing is if the penalty didn't exists. Your pos's resists would be over 100% which enacts a failsafe in the game code that means anything can one shot your pos.





except that's not how multiplicative stacking works.

Art of Explosions
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#8 - 2015-08-02 15:29:46 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Funny thing is if the penalty didn't exists. Your pos's resists would be over 100% which enacts a failsafe in the game code that means anything can one shot your pos.





except that's not how multiplicative stacking works.


It's what happened to the very smart OH X-type impel though.
Orlacc
#9 - 2015-08-02 17:06:47 UTC
The infamous "guy told me."

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2015-08-02 18:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Funny thing is if the penalty didn't exists. Your pos's resists would be over 100% which enacts a failsafe in the game code that means anything can one shot your pos.





except that's not how multiplicative stacking works.


It's what happened to the very smart OH X-type impel though.

Confirming. When you have more than 99% resistances the code does this weird thing where it assumes your resistance levels are negative.

This is why special DEV ships, like the Polaris and Enigma, have only 99% resistances and not 100%.

stoicfaux wrote:
http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking#Penalty_Table

The 7th+ modules are less than 1% effective. Your friends are technically wrong, but they're also effectively correct.

Also confirming.

POS resistance modules more or less follow the same stacking penalty paradigm as ship mods. After 3 or 4 POS resistance mods it becomes far more efficient to fit something else due to diminishing returns.

How did you Veterans start?
Samuel Sachs
#11 - 2015-08-02 18:44:53 UTC
Thanks for all your answers, but some of the things you explained is not what i was asking for, my question was basicly to know if someone can confirm a bug or mechanic what gives more then 5 hardeners "not" more effectivness.

SheetMon_V2 a gdocs spreadsheet what pulls lots of stuff, feel free to make a copy :-)
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2015-08-02 18:54:36 UTC
Samuel Sachs wrote:
Thanks for all your answers, but some of the things you explained is not what i was asking for, my question was basicly to know if someone can confirm a bug or mechanic what gives more then 5 hardeners "not" more effectivness.

What?

stoicfaux already gave you what you are looking for.
stoicfaux wrote:
http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking#Penalty_Table

The 7th+ modules are less than 1% effective. Your friends are technically wrong, but they're also effectively correct.

tldr:

- it's not a bug, it is a mechanic designed so that you cannot achieve absurdly high resistances

- adding more mods that affect the same stats incurs a "stacking penalty"
--------- the first mod is 100% effective
--------- the second mod is ~87% effective (meaning it only gives 86% of its bonus)
--------- the third mod is ~57% effective (meaning it only gives 57% of its bonus)
--------- the fourth mod is ~28% effective (meaning it only gives 28% of its bonus)

- bonuses are multiplicative, not additive.

How did you Veterans start?
Samuel Sachs
#13 - 2015-08-02 18:57:07 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Samuel Sachs wrote:
Thanks for all your answers, but some of the things you explained is not what i was asking for, my question was basicly to know if someone can confirm a bug or mechanic what gives more then 5 hardeners "not" more effectivness.

What?

stoicfaux already gave you what you are looking for.
stoicfaux wrote:
http://wiki.eve-id.net/Stacking#Penalty_Table

The 7th+ modules are less than 1% effective. Your friends are technically wrong, but they're also effectively correct.

tldr:

- it's not a bug, it is a mechanic designed so that you cannot achieve absurdly high resistances

- adding more mods that affect the same stats incurs a "stacking penalty"
--------- the first mod is 100% effective
--------- the second mod is ~87% effective (meaning it only gives 86% of its bonus)
--------- the third mod is ~57% effective (meaning it only gives 57% of its bonus)
--------- the fourth mod is ~28% effective (meaning it only gives 28% of its bonus)

- bonuses are multiplicative, not additive.


Again, i know what stacking penalty is, i asked for a known bug or a mechanic what shows wrong stats ingame they have no effect.

SheetMon_V2 a gdocs spreadsheet what pulls lots of stuff, feel free to make a copy :-)
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#14 - 2015-08-02 18:59:20 UTC
Samuel Sachs wrote:
Again, i know what stacking penalty is, i asked for a known bug or a mechanic what shows wrong stats ingame they have no effect.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.... you are asking about a UI issue.

Yes. There are some things in the game that do not display proper stats. Drones that you have deployed have this same issue (stats are applying, but they do not show up under the "Info Window")

How did you Veterans start?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#15 - 2015-08-02 19:57:45 UTC
go online them, shoot a missile at the tower see how much damage it does, then turn them off one by one shooing a missile at the tower each time and see how much damage it does. open the log, take a screenshot, and post it here to let us know if it works.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter