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FozzieSov and the future of entosising
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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2015-07-22 23:58:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Crimson Draufgange wrote:

Entosis Capture Times:
I propose that the number of pilots that an alliance has affects how fast a sov structure belonging to that alliance is captured. The more members an alliance has, the faster it will be to capture or entosis structures belonging to that alliance. The fewer members an alliance has, the slower it will be to capture or entosis structures.

Think about this: an alliance with 5k+ members can respond much faster and with much greater force than an alliance with 500 members. So it makes sense that the large alliance's structures should take less time to reinforce than a structure belonging to a smaller alliance.


Uhhhmmm, aren’t you forgetting that such an alliance will likely be spread out over a larger area and thus it will be harder to protect as well. Especially from multiple attacks. If we are talking about alliances with similar size you’d have a point. But if the alliance with 5,000 pilots has 10x the space of the 500 man alliance, then I’m not sure your point is valid.

Oh, and this part,

Quote:
Basically, CCP would have to make some sort of calculator that takes all the alliances in EVE online, adds the number of all members belonging to all those alliances, then divides the sum by the total number of alliance in EVE, and that number is your average, or the median. That is the number that determines how fast a structure is entosised.


That is not the median. To find the median you’d rank the alliances by number of members and select that alliance that is exactly in the middle. If there is no such alliance, then pick the two alliances on either side of where this alliance would be, add them together and divide by 2. Basically you split the distribution of alliances into two equal halves. What you are describing is better known as the average.


Update:

So, in keeping with the notion that it is not just sheer size of number of pilots, but something more along the lines of pilots/system, the top 10 alliances in terms of pilots/system:

Alliance Pilots/System
P-A-T-R-I-O-T-S 940
Nulli Secunda 849
Fraternity. 762
Southern Sitizens 712
District-85 681
Pandemic Legion 675.25
Kadeshians 643
Darwinism. 565
Northern Coalition. 549.25
Desman Alliance 368

Goons rank 35th.

The median is split between Imperium Galactic Empire and Fidelas Constans at 62.42 pilots/system.

Not that I advocate anything like this, just to be clear.

Want a soft target and to start some ****, go **** in Shadow of xXDEATHXx's cheerios. With 261 systems and primarily a renter alliance you might not see any response at all.

Update II: The reason those alliances are in the top 10 is because they all have 1-4 systems. And we know why. It is probably where they are building their supers. So Northern Coalition has 4 systems and can defend those 4 with all 2197. Talk about ease of defending a system.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Grorious Reader
Mongorian Horde
#42 - 2015-07-23 03:08:07 UTC
The thing people need to realize is that you're never going to have a situation where smaller alliances can compete in direct combat scenarios with larger alliances. War in eve carries many parallels with real war. Smaller or less advanced forces do not win direct confrontations with larger or more advanced forces. They win through speed, deception, sabotage, espionage, and attrition. Basically none of these things are facilitated by EVE's game mechanics. In fact, the speed advantage of smaller groups is directly nullified by CCPs use of timers in virtually all structure related scenarios. In short, if you're a smaller alliance that wants to deal a blow to a bigger alliance, your best bet is to all become spies.
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries
#43 - 2015-07-23 11:35:16 UTC
i suggest that to rep a station, hub or structure, it has to be repped/recaptured by members within the corp that owns the "attacked" item... and not within the alliance or alliances With blue standing to the attacked alliance, ergo forcing the defenders to have People in the holding corps. That would give large sov holders a nightmare to be able to Control their empire. A smaller alliance With one or 2-3 systems, could more easily controll and defend since they have their force consentrated in short range.
CyberRaver
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2015-07-23 14:10:33 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
People are mixing up up much stuffs i guess. There was sov pre-dominion and there is post-FozzieSov. Anything in between i call the FagBlobSov era. For me personally, the Empyrean Age - The Quantum Rise - Apocrypha era was the best, and the most fun flourishing 2 years of EVE. Why? Because sov was up for the graps for anyone or any corp who wished to fight for it and persue fame on the geopolitical level. Pre-dominion you could see Alliance influence (and ths sov holding capabilities) as a natural cycle. Pilots (read Human resources) have limits. Therefor, any big alliance can be worn down again with post-FozzieSov, instead just jumping in 20 people triple boxing 60 supers for 1 evening. But to keep your pilots fighting, with moral and ISK hit's again, that's a complete other story. EVE is definitely on the good track! After the outpost changes, legendary stories can be written again (ref: Great Wildlands 2006-2009).

Don't get me wrong, i like your idea's. But i think that the perfect balance still needs some time to show itself. Caution is really advised, and (!) i have a feeling the citadel changes will make impact too!

Edit:

Fuque Sathienne wrote:

you are still just butthurt you have no meaningful impact on the game


http://evewho.com/pilot/Fuque+Sathienne
Before trolling the OP, joining a "big" alliance and pretending you achieved "something meaningful", could you support your claim on an other way without being hypocrite or just a terrible troll?


Are we not allowed to have alts? ;)

Evewho all you like my point stands completely, for an alliance who wants to burn the CFC and who quoted "CCP is writing the game for us"

Now they suddenly want the sov changes changed to make it easier for them?
They havent made a single timer in dek since it hit, and currently spend most nights camped in

#worstallianceineve
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Scumlords
#45 - 2015-07-29 14:53:32 UTC
Ohh the goon tears...

I think the system is fine for the moment... is it fun..ummm not really....its a bit boring to be honest flying around in circles entosising. Is doing nodes fun.... not really. But thats the price we have to pay... so be it.

How about we just get our feet wet fiirst... FFS we are still practicing and learning how this new system even works.

BTW we did take our first system, and have created about 9 timer so far.

This is all learning ...patiance... whats the rush? We have years to troll them

enjoy the goon tears...

OHH AND WHERE ARE OUR RENTERS!!!! give us renters to kill and we may not even bother entosising anything..we want a new MEAT SHIELD!!!!
Neo Kathura
Doomheim
#46 - 2015-07-29 15:29:52 UTC
You pay a "price" of not having fun to play a game? That's pretty sad. If a game stops being fun I just move to a new game that is since that's what they are for. Nobody puts "harvested goon tears" on their CV.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#47 - 2015-07-29 22:03:25 UTC
Neo Kathura wrote:
You pay a "price" of not having fun to play a game? That's pretty sad. If a game stops being fun I just move to a new game that is since that's what they are for. Nobody puts "harvested goon tears" on their CV.

it's the price for shaking up a geo-political landscape with a new capture mechanic
it'll settle down/start kicking up a fuss in a month or two, when people work out how best to take and hold entosis points

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#48 - 2015-07-30 16:09:17 UTC
Neo Kathura wrote:
Nobody puts "harvested goon tears" on their CV.

apparently moa does

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Crimson Draufgange
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#49 - 2015-08-01 00:50:28 UTC
Either this thread is going to die in a glorious fire, or a moderator is gonna kill it. Either way, one of those two should happen sooner rather than later...

Hint hint...

My Velator is overpowered.

"I use my hairgel to tackle my targets because it has a long lasting firm hold." - Me.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#50 - 2015-08-01 01:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
The largest effects of FozzieSov occurred before it was even implemented, right now most seem to simply be holding their breath... learning the ropes... and waiting for the first major player to make a move.

When the first stress fractures in currently held sov space begin to appear, things may well start developing very quickly.

Hopefully people won't spend too long plugging the small leaks while assuring themselves they can deal with a flood the same way. Smile

However, even if that does not come to pass, at least things are no worse off than they were before... which is something at least.

Edit:

You know, now that I think about it, perhaps we've underestimated CCP's cunning in this.

Yes, this system can be used for formal declarations of war and territorial conquest. However, it also excels as a means to troll others. And if there is one thing for certain in EVE, it's that once the trolling starts it is very, very easy for people to get carried away with it... potentially escalating what started out as an intention to harass into something far more serious.

Perhaps that was Fozzies evil plan all along. Big smile

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