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Do you feel CCP could do more to combat the bots?
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Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2012-01-01 11:33:23 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:

Mining is easy and risk free. So everyone does it. So it doesn't provide much income (drone poop is a problem, but fixing it won't help Hisec mining income much). Other Risk free activities (missions, etc.) don't suffer from competition as much, though the do cause inflation, which hurts their real income (and helps that of miners).

Manufacturing runs the risk of changing markets and traders doubly so. So they make more money for accepting risk. If you'd like to capture that isk(and risk), WELL, Have I got news for YOU. With my patented 20d Skill plan, YOU can be manufacturing your very own items out of the very same kind of minerals YOU already have.

Edit:
Something like Warden would alienate the userbase, wouldn't work if you run Eve in a virtual machine (like the official Mac Client), and is easily bypassed or confused anyway. So no thanks to the Warden idea.


Hey, I'm not trying to upset you here. :) Mining is easy and fairly risk free in the sense of getting blown up (usually), but it is also BORING and labor intensive. In an MMO, under normal circumstances, anything that's boring and labor intensive and can be done by someone else for a price, usually commands a high price. (And I don't mine any more, btw. It's too boring for me.) Personally, I think it's a shame that bots ruin what could be a good source of income for new players.

As for a warden-like program, I'm sure CCP can think of something if they try. And players wouldn't mind if it meant significantly less bots damaging the integrity of the game.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#42 - 2012-01-01 12:01:56 UTC
Hainnz wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

Mining is easy and risk free. So everyone does it. So it doesn't provide much income (drone poop is a problem, but fixing it won't help Hisec mining income much). Other Risk free activities (missions, etc.) don't suffer from competition as much, though the do cause inflation, which hurts their real income (and helps that of miners).

Manufacturing runs the risk of changing markets and traders doubly so. So they make more money for accepting risk. If you'd like to capture that isk(and risk), WELL, Have I got news for YOU. With my patented 20d Skill plan, YOU can be manufacturing your very own items out of the very same kind of minerals YOU already have.

Edit:
Something like Warden would alienate the userbase, wouldn't work if you run Eve in a virtual machine (like the official Mac Client), and is easily bypassed or confused anyway. So no thanks to the Warden idea.


Hey, I'm not trying to upset you here. :) Mining is easy and fairly risk free in the sense of getting blown up (usually), but it is also BORING and labor intensive. In an MMO, under normal circumstances, anything that's boring and labor intensive and can be done by someone else for a price, usually commands a high price. (And I don't mine any more, btw. It's too boring for me.) Personally, I think it's a shame that bots ruin what could be a good source of income for new players.

As for a warden-like program, I'm sure CCP can think of something if they try. And players wouldn't mind if it meant significantly less bots damaging the integrity of the game.


Most MMOs don't have any risk, so boredom's the only real measure of cost. And Warden didn't lick WoW's Gold selling/botting problems, making the high level items bind and thus devaluing gold as a currency to the point where it wasn't worth buying killed the bot/RMT community in WoW. And an attempt to solve Botting in Eve in any way similar to that would... let's go with "not work well."

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Rhinanna
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-01-01 15:14:40 UTC
Shag Sheep wrote:
^ just edited it slightly to make my point clearer for you.

Also, true aligning means not just pointing in the direction you want to be able to warp too, it's also moving in that direction to avoid the long & dangerous acceleration time of mining vessels. Considering the mining lasers limited range, that means you often out range the rocks before you fill your cargo and that's assuming you are not trying to fill a can or something. What happens when you are out of range? You warp off and then warp back to your original position? Or maybe turn around and get closer again so you can then realign to your warp out and repeat (this one completely defeats the aligning purpose)? Neither of those two scenarios do anything but make mining even less profitable than it is already. The time wasted cuts deeply into the already low bottom line.


Align at 75% speed, turn round and align to 2nd warp off the other side of the rocks. You are only vulnerable for a brief moment while turning. Unless they are watching you in a cloaky, that will make you 100% safe. Even if they aren't, they have to get the timing very very accurate to warp in on you exactly as you turn. This will also let you mine just as fast as sitting still. You can also fit various mods that decrease your max speed to increase this time if needed.

The only downside is you have to put a little effort in. If you don't want to do that, it's your own problem and you have NOTHING to complain about except your own laziness.

No you can't be 100% immune, but doing that makes you pretty dam close again the majority of suicide gankers, more if you keep an eye on local.

-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more) 
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#44 - 2012-01-01 15:17:39 UTC
Luh Windan wrote:

What I don't understand is why miners aren't ganking the f**k out of each other. Surely you would make more profit if there was less competition? It's simple economics - reduce supply from others and protect your own supply.

for the same reason why you don't kill your brother as child just to get more at christmass

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2012-01-01 15:32:11 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Luh Windan wrote:
What I don't understand is why miners aren't ganking the f**k out of each other. Surely you would make more profit if there was less competition? It's simple economics - reduce supply from others and protect your own supply.
for the same reason why you don't kill your brother as child just to get more at christmass
That… doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

It's not like you're going to jail, nor do you have any shared parents that will disown you. They're your competitors, not your siblings.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#46 - 2012-01-01 15:32:34 UTC
TLDR:The key word in the question is 'could', so my answer is yes.

CCP 'could' do a lot more about bots and botting, but I doubt they will be allowed to as long as true power of the company, the finance department, has a say. Bots are paying their bills, maybe indirectly, but they are paying them. So long as the income to CCP from bots is via subscriptions or GTCs it will be begrudgingly tolerated.

The only place I believe that you are going to see any action is against the RMT folks who are pocketing real world money for their in-game actions. There is a pretty clear understanding of what happens to RMT buyers in the game as one usually shows up about once a month in here claiming that 'life isn't fair and they didn't know', but the actual impact on the RMT market is a closely guarded secret (or completely unknown).

I would love to see a hardline stance on botting in this game, I even had hope about it when they announced back at FanFest that they were going to do something about botting. However, other than the initial shock of a small penalty ban the whole thing fell off the radar and the 'updates' that came out were nothing of real value or interest (and several months late). Since then, we've seen little and heard nothing.

The only indirect bone we have been thrown is the new BCs which make popping mining bots very easy, the other ones are still able to operate semi-unmolested (queue the anti-afk cloaky crowd).

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
J Kunjeh
#47 - 2012-01-01 15:34:22 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:

I would love to see a hardline stance on botting in this game, I even had hope about it when they announced back at FanFest that they were going to do something about botting. However, other than the initial shock of a small penalty ban the whole thing fell off the radar and the 'updates' that came out were nothing of real value or interest (and several months late). Since then, we've seen little and heard nothing.


Here, here! But alas, money rules our world and as long as those botters keep paying their subs, I doubt anything serious will be done about them. Such a shame too.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Xavier Quo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-01-01 15:39:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Quo
Yes. Nearly all the ISK making game mechanics are so predictable and of a low variety & interactivity they lend themselves very easily to being better & faster completed by bots then humans. EVE is described as a player run economy and currently that is a complete misnomer, unless you redefine "player".
Janis Ezra
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#49 - 2012-01-01 21:15:23 UTC
I dont understand why everyone complains about mining bots. Those arent the ones who control and ruin the game. Those are only visible for everyone.
The real threats are 0.0 bots, making 500m+ a day every day 23/7, and marketing bots. 99% of us will never even see them in space, therefore no one cares about them, but those bots ruin the game.
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#50 - 2012-01-01 21:28:03 UTC
They can do alot more,

Iv reported several bots that i know 100% are bots and they are still around. Iv not only pressed the silly little report bot button which im sure doesnt actually do anything but have petitioned also. They are all still active.
Mentat Cthulhu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-01-01 21:36:00 UTC
Report-a-bot is just bullshit push button, receive popup. Message goes to some spam folder along with the penis enlargement and nigerian scam mails.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#52 - 2012-01-01 21:54:58 UTC
The bots are a lie Linkage - Linkage ? Can you spot the timer settings?

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met worst
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-01-01 23:04:53 UTC
Chribba wrote:
The bots are a lie Linkage - Linkage ? Can you spot the timer settings?

Lol. There will be at least 2 players going "oh ****".
Luh Windan
green fish hat bang bang
#54 - 2012-01-01 23:46:56 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Luh Windan wrote:

What I don't understand is why miners aren't ganking the f**k out of each other. Surely you would make more profit if there was less competition? It's simple economics - reduce supply from others and protect your own supply.

for the same reason why you don't kill your brother as child just to get more at christmass


so assuming you are not an idiot and lack any understanding of economics: what you are trying to say is that you are all in it together?

ok. Since mining is a great love in - why not all agree to mine less and push the prices up. WIth a bit of collusion you could all agree to, say, only mine for an hour a day each - supply would drop but demand would remain constant (you would still all need the same gear and I assume that the rest of eve will stay roughly constant) and therefore mineral prices would rise. You might all need to experiment a bit but you could all end up doing dramatically less work for the same money.

you might want to read up about OPEC and how the oil industry tried to do keep prices high (and just in case you have forgotten you have the ability to blow your competitors up (mostly) unlike the oil industry). Right now you all seem in a stupid race to the bottom all determined to follow actions that will reduce your income all the time.
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