These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Apparently clone soldiers are property of players.

First post
Author
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2015-07-31 01:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
no dev should be posting about mechanics if they have to start their post with "I believe" to me this destroys credibility and is counterproductive.

To be clear, my source on my comment was this page, which has been gone over by our GM team since the release of Crimewatch 2.0, which was the last major rework of these mechanics. However, game mechanics do occasionally change, so I qualified it.

Hope that helps lend some perspective.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#42 - 2015-07-31 01:53:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Rawketsled wrote:
Based off that wiki link, it sounds like ownership lasts forever.
Could be, that's what I'm saying, no way to know. Could be this, could be that, could be anything, from an ambiguous wiki entry. It really says nothing.

Say if a designer walked in and dropped a copy of that wiki page and said implement this into the combat and looting system (and I have coded those systems before), I would frankly be left to do the design work of the project, not just coding it.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2015-07-31 01:55:39 UTC
So....."lowsec" still working as advertised, eh? Okey dokey.
JohnHoe
Perkone
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-07-31 02:59:25 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Useful words...


Thank you for this informative post shedding some light on the situation. Glad to see someone understands my concern and responded with out being a smart ass. The issue is it may be counting absolute total damage, whether it was repped or not. Killmail damage is reported in this manner. I've seen frigate killmails showing 30k damage taken because it was a long fight with lots repping.

Technically someone could shoot one of these rats with a low dps interceptor and do 100k damage even though the rats tank was never broken at any time. They then warp out and still "own" the wreck. If it does work this way I feel it is a bad mechanic. There needs to be some form of cutoff. Whether it be from a reasonable amount of time passing or them leaving system.

This is just something I would be interesting in knowing. Ill try and get some information and report back.
Paranoid Loyd
#45 - 2015-07-31 03:15:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
CCP Darwin wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
no dev should be posting about mechanics if they have to start their post with "I believe" to me this destroys credibility and is counterproductive.

To be clear, my source on my comment was this page, which has been gone over by our GM team since the release of Crimewatch 2.0, which was the last major rework of these mechanics. However, game mechanics do occasionally change, so I qualified it.

Hope that helps lend some perspective.

Sigh, it's disappointing that I can't agree that the official wiki can be quoted as a reliable source. Quite frankly I will look to the EveUni site before I go there. So IMO, it should not be used as a source until some major work is put into it. (I do realize the page your quoted is up to date, but the site as a whole is not.) But I digress...

My point is we all just post hearsay and conjecture about what we think is right, and occasionally purposefully misdirect.

You are a beacon of truth (relatively speaking) not only that, you have resources at your disposal that we do not. It seems to me if you felt that you needed to say "I believe", then you should have asked someone in the office that would know for sure before you posted at all, that way there is no question as to the validity of your post.

As I mentioned, I really appreciate your efforts, it's just I have to hold you to a higher standard as you are the beacon of truth with your blue tag.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#46 - 2015-07-31 04:14:20 UTC
Darwin is an art dev. I appreciate him spending his time to comment, but at the same time... damn the eve wiki is pretty awful. many pages are locked, many pages I have to log in again to edit, many pages are just confusing walls of text... just looking at the main page of the wiki, the "new pilot faq" link page 404. I don't even know where I'm going with this

I could have sworn wrecks belonged to the final blow, but I guess not anymore?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Paranoid Loyd
#47 - 2015-07-31 05:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I don't even know where I'm going with this
Well for one thing "NPE" is a huge buzzword right now and it seems to me one of the lowest hanging fruits with a very large return would be to fix the damn wiki and keep it up to date.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#48 - 2015-07-31 06:24:51 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I don't even know where I'm going with this
Well for one thing "NPE" is a huge buzzword right now and it seems to me one of the lowest hanging fruits with a very large return would be to fix the damn wiki and keep it up to date.
Isn't that suppose to be like Falcons thing to do? Being the community guy etc. I completely agree though, it's good to have strong documentation, even for the vets.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#49 - 2015-07-31 08:18:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Am currently in possession of 2,136 clone soldier bodies which can be activated by roughly 160 entities within my employ.

The bodies themselves are certainly my property, as are the 11 planetary districts which house them, though only my most cynical employees would likely claim I contractually own their consciousness as property.

If they don't do what I tell them, they just don't get paid is all.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2015-07-31 11:02:46 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I could have sworn wrecks belonged to the final blow, but I guess not anymore?

As you point out, I'm not a game feature developer, which is why I relied on a CCP-originated public source that I believed to be up to date to answer what I read as a simple question asked out of curiosity.

However, I have now definitively double-checked that the information I quoted from that source is still accurate for the case the original poster was asking about. Hope that helps dispel any remaining ambiguity.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2015-07-31 13:41:06 UTC
Not every developer can have encyclopaedic knowledge of every aspect of the software they work on, especially if it's EVE, and starting a statement with "I believe" is perfectly reasonable if you're not completely sure. There should be nothing scandalous about this.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-07-31 13:43:14 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I don't even know where I'm going with this
Well for one thing "NPE" is a huge buzzword right now and it seems to me one of the lowest hanging fruits with a very large return would be to fix the damn wiki and keep it up to date.


It's true, the official wiki's in a bad state and I think everyone would much rather contribute to e-uni's wiki even if it weren't for many pages with out of date or erroneous information being locked.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#53 - 2015-07-31 15:22:25 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I could have sworn wrecks belonged to the final blow, but I guess not anymore?

As you point out, I'm not a game feature developer, which is why I relied on a CCP-originated public source that I believed to be up to date to answer what I read as a simple question asked out of curiosity.

However, I have now definitively double-checked that the information I quoted from that source is still accurate for the case the original poster was asking about. Hope that helps dispel any remaining ambiguity.

CCP Darwin, the only remaining ambiguity is if there is some sort of time limit. That is, if one player does a pile of damage, then leaves without the kill, does his damage score persist forever, or does it expire? If I come in and get the kill at a later time, but do less damage than the first player in doing so, will I get the wreck if sufficient time has passed? If so, how much time?

Also, it seems this is a poor mechanic. Someone who is not on-grid should not get ownership of the wreck. Maybe you could pass this issue to those who are feature developers?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2015-08-01 15:23:28 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Darwin, the only remaining ambiguity is if there is some sort of time limit.

Please understand that I'm not freely at liberty to reveal the specifics of game mechanics that haven't already been described publicly by our game design or game feature developers.

That said, I believe that you can derive the answer to this from some simple testing.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2015-08-01 22:42:55 UTC
I wouldn't be surprised if it works the same way as damage counting on killmails, or very similarly, probably best to test that assumption first.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#56 - 2015-08-02 00:34:13 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Sigh, it's disappointing that I can't agree that the official wiki can be quoted as a reliable source. Quite frankly I will look to the EveUni site before I go there. So IMO, it should not be used as a source until some major work is put into it. (I do realize the page your quoted is up to date, but the site as a whole is not.) But I digress...


Will you then update the official wiki if you find that it's incorrect?
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2015-08-02 01:09:31 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Darwin, the only remaining ambiguity is if there is some sort of time limit.

Please understand that I'm not freely at liberty to reveal the specifics of game mechanics that haven't already been described publicly by our game design or game feature developers.

That said, I believe that you can derive the answer to this from some simple testing.

EVE NEW PLAYER EXPERIENCE


Hey this confusing game mechanic has different answers from different people/sources.
Went to OFFICIAL EVE WIKI its outdated and incorrect about many things.
Dev answer "test it yourself. Some mechanics are secret"

Come on eve. Come on.
Circumstantial Evidence
#58 - 2015-08-02 18:04:03 UTC
Some game mechanics are left for the players to figure out, nothing new here, it's always been this way.

That said, I support the idea of a certain information on the official WIKI being CCP's responsibility, such as the NPE stuff.

Go to the main page and click "Getting Started"
Takes you to "Category:New Player Experience"
Click on: The User Interface
Old neocom buttons and overview icons. Ship status panel doesn't have info on sensor overlay. The list goes on.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#59 - 2015-08-03 00:22:59 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
Some game mechanics are left for the players to figure out, nothing new here, it's always been this way.
hum? you mean like modern games of the WoW era? With hand holding, limited interaction between players (even instancing) and constant rewards for special snowflakes to keep their attention span on sparkles and gumdrops rainbows.

But in more traditional openworld pvp mmo's like UO, Shadowbane, AO to name a few, core systems like this were no secret on how they operated. Stuff covering pvp, aggression, flagging, looting etc, always well written someplace and such questions answered. It's just base gameplay, man, and a core system that effects all of the game world. Things like quests? Sure, figure them out.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
#60 - 2015-08-03 11:21:13 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
no dev should be posting about mechanics if they have to start their post with "I believe" to me this destroys credibility and is counterproductive.


I believe that a "senior technical artist" is not really required to know all the internal mechanics of a massive game by heart Big smile