Ships & Modules

I'm talking Target Painters and why you want to use them.

I'm doing some research into how to better setup my ratting ship to slaughter Serpentis in a Rattlesnake and I'm taking a deep look into the Target Painter.

Here is some basic information about one particular module and my skills affect on it:

Optimal Range: 39,000 m
Falloff Range: 72,000 m
Signature Bonus: 30% (to targets signature radius)

If one were to assume that a Target Painter works like an infinite tracking sentry drone we can use the turret calculation to find the % bonus for any given range to the target. We shall also assume that the Signature Resolution of the Target Painter is 1.

If I calculate the signature radius of a target (base 300) I get an increase to 396.5 and it slowly starts to drop off around 39,000 m.

To continue our look into Target Painters I have selected Garde II's which have the following stats for me:

Optimal Range: 24,3000 m
Falloff Range: 34,800 m
Signature Resolution: 400
Tracking Speed: .03948

Assume our target has a Transversal velocity of 100 m/s

I can then calculate the damage done by the sentry drone with the affect of no Target Painter and the affect of a Target Painter and I am confused.

Why is the damage application worse with a Target Painter on the target than without one? Sure, at less than 4,500 m it is better but at no other time is it better and at 4,500 m you should not be using your sentries anyway. You also are better served by using webs at that range as well. It makes no difference on the type of sentry drone selected.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/airportphantom/tpsentries_zps1qegjcit.png

apart from the fact that ewar is digital (on or off) you must have got something else wrong as well. In eft I'm looking at the DPS graphs and paints definitely make a difference positively

Redundant - tracking goes into the denominator of the power index, meaning the denominator would be a very small number, close to 0. Anything to the power of zero is 1. Regardless of what angular velocity of the enemy is, TP would apply full effect.

But that's a pointless observation, because your assumption is wrong. The above poster explained how falloff affects EWAR.


For your example
Angular velocity in both cases is 100/4500 = 0.022(2) rad/s

Without TP 0.5^(0.0222/0.03948 x 4/3)^2 => 69% to hit
With TP 0.5^(0.0222/0.03948 x ~1)^2 => 80% to hit.

~ +16% DPS or chance to hit.

You have an inconsistent amount of brackets IMO.

for ex.:
($G$29/($B58*$G$17))*($G$15/($E58))^2) @G58

Product of the two ratios is meant to be squared, not the last ratio alone.
Your function is giving 1.118 in the ratio before 0.5^[]
I'm getting 1.229 on my calc.

Put a legend on your graphs.

EDIT: Your entire G column is using the above formula. Whilst column I is using the correct one.

You are getting better results at low ranges because the contribution from a non squared ratio at low range is greater.

Its like [small ratio 1]*[small ratio 2]^2 versus ([small ratio 1]*[small ratio 2])^2

First ratio is range ratio, which will reduce in magnitude with increased range. Smaller ratios contribute to higher chance. Small ratios squared is an even lower ratio.

In the first occasion the rate at which it reduces is lower than in the second. Thats why you are getting wrong results and reaching a breakeven at 3750m

That sounds right, because the rate at which CtH increases with reduced ratio is exponential. i.e. at high chance you start seeing diminishing returns.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/images/a/a4/Falloff.png

Slope reduces as it approaches 100%. In contrast the contribution at low chance (or high transversal) is much higher, because the slope goes from 0 to +. (or negative in relation to the graph, but basically the rate increases).

TPs don't do much for tracking based systems unless the chance to hit is very low.
Learned this the hard way when I flew a freaking TP slasher.

Also because it is chance based, you are looking at a statistical average. The reality will be dramatically different depending on the nature of random() function that CCP uses to invoke a random number.

I know what he's doing wrong. He's trying to rat in one of the premier bait ships in the game. Of course things won't be quite right when you misuse it on this magnetude.

Drop a mobile depot - open your toolkit of pain - peck ineffectively at rats - swap you passive tank around as the gankers drop in on you for max effect - web/scram/kill all comers. Heck you can even use a painter.

What you don't want to do with a rattlesnake is worry about if the target painter you fitted to it gives you 33.876% (reapeating of course) sig bonus or 34.007% sig bonus.

I'm not trying to insult you here, I'm trying to help. You are doing it all wrong. Fit a point - pvp w/ that sexy girl. Ratting is for chumps. If you love puppies - fit a point.

Your harsh words make my feelings all ouchy. I'll tone it down so we both don't end up crying ourselves to sleep tonight.

Don't get too caught up in the numbers bub. I've never crunched them, and I've done OK. Put one on, get out there and shoot some rats. If it makes things better - keep it on there. If it doesn't then try something else. All I'm saying is.... well I'm saying a couple of things

pvp is fun - don't forget to do pvp
numbers are cool, but try stuff and see if it does what you want (don't rely on eft)
if you love puppies - put a point on your rattlesnake

optimal probably involves using both. plus tps tend to work out to about 100km pretty reliably. they have very long falloff.

Target painters improve damage application with any weapon - including drones. They also stack independently from tracking and missile guidance computers.