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Industry Index effected by hacking/industry activity
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Zevix
Theoretical Paradigms Initiative
Everyones Best Interest
#1 - 2015-07-21 17:26:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Zevix
The Survey Networks 1 through 5 are already considered an "Industrial Upgrade"...so why isn't the act of running relic and data sites considered an index raising activity the way mining is when it has the "Ore Prospecting Array" upgrade?

That is just plain, basic, common sense, if the upgrade requires the index then the activity it effects should work towards the index as well.

As for the over-arching label of "Industry Upgrades" and "Industry Index", why isn't the "Capital Constructions Facilities" also an Industry index related upgrade? Why cant it have levels that have a decrease in ME or TE on capital construction as a benefit of maintaining an index and by virtue of manufacturing (cap or subcap) in that system maybe also effect the Index?
Resaec Fitsuga
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#2 - 2015-07-22 07:03:45 UTC
CCP is smart and I know this is something they're already looking into. They are taking longer than we'd like but they want to make sure the things that effect the industry index can't be gamed and broken. Trading on the market for example will not be effecting the industry index.
Aeon Veritas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-07-22 07:44:49 UTC
The thing is that currently the industry index is driven by the m^3 amount minered.
And since the stuff from the relic and data sites is relatively small in m^3 numbers there needs to be a new calculation model made-up for this stuff.
And as Resaec Fitsuga stated, they are looking into it...
So, please be patient and hopefully it's implemented soon™
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2015-07-22 11:26:36 UTC
I support running relic, data, and mining gas sites should raise indexes.

The other stuff is either not out in space or too easily exploited. That makes it a lower priority for me.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#5 - 2015-07-22 11:30:13 UTC
What about pi?

It still takes some level of activity in the system to maintain that

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aeon Veritas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-07-22 13:56:07 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I support running relic, data, and mining gas sites should raise indexes.

The other stuff is either not out in space or too easily exploited. That makes it a lower priority for me.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
What about pi?

It still takes some level of activity in the system to maintain that

I think those 3 things should realy contribute to the industry index.

For PI should only via Poco exported m^3 contibute to the industry index.
If you count in the imports too there would be the risk that people exploit this and just buy the index up with im-exporting stuff...
I'm not sure about the actual PI-export restrictions, maybe they need a litte tweaking to prevent exploits.

I think nothing speaks against if gas harvesting would just plain contribute with the harvested m^3, like ore mining.

The tricky part is to implement relic and data sites.
A interesting approach would be that everey successfully hacked container contributes a plain percentage to the industry index.
But every destroyed container would subtract the same percentage.
Since I don't know how much sites spawn on average in systems with Survey Networks 5 upgrade i'm not sure what this percentage should be. Maybe 0,1%?
Zevix
Theoretical Paradigms Initiative
Everyones Best Interest
#7 - 2015-07-22 17:21:25 UTC
Love the support and the ideas guys, keep it flowing so at least some of these ideas make it into the game and add a bit of balance and dynamics.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2015-07-24 10:10:29 UTC
Aeon Veritas wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I support running relic, data, and mining gas sites should raise indexes.

The other stuff is either not out in space or too easily exploited. That makes it a lower priority for me.
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
What about pi?

It still takes some level of activity in the system to maintain that

I

For PI should only via Poco exported m^3 contibute to the industry index.
If you count in the imports too there would be the risk that people exploit this and just buy the index up with im-exporting stuff...
I'm not sure about the actual PI-export restrictions, maybe they need a litte tweaking to prevent exploits.



It would have to be based either on extractors or factory cycles(both if possible) if it was just exported m3 then you would either not get enough from P4 or get to much from P0. at the same time you could still game the system by expo/impo it would just be half as effective as if imports were taken into account.


But i don't think the system could be gamed if you tracked successful factory cycles

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Aeon Veritas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-07-30 12:56:19 UTC
Well, I have to confess I'm not very familiar with PI.
And I was rather focused on the m^3, since the ore is already calculated with it.
My hope was that there would only be more item which contribute to the m^3 calculation instead of a new calculation.
I would like the index system as uniformly as possible.

Iirc ice contributes just with half of it's m^3 to the index, so it seems possible to link factors to certain items.
That way it would be possible to even the contibution of the PI-goods, or make higher tier goods contribute more...
Juan Mileghere
The Corporate Raiders
Safety.
#10 - 2015-07-30 17:00:53 UTC
This is a soild idea that makes sense, it's a damn shame this is being overlooked by so many people
+1

Blobbing Explained
Zevix
Theoretical Paradigms Initiative
Everyones Best Interest
#11 - 2015-08-02 00:43:59 UTC
Agreed, seems like between the system as it is and the concepts/idea presented here there is little to no reason CCP couldnt throw something together and include this in the next sov stuff patch. Im sure EVERY sov owner, no matter their politics, can see the merit in a more uniform and inclusive calculation to indexes.

But dont let this stop us from continuing to throw new ideas out there either, the more we contribute, the greater tha chance something good makes it into the game. We could maybe even call in to question the military index, ratting is far and away the more popular nullsec activity than industry so maybe it could use a once over while we are crunching numbers and looking for a more equal representation of activity to index. If we are going to be stuck with fozzie sov, lets at least make the most of it.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#12 - 2015-08-02 20:25:49 UTC
the problem with using import/export is that you could turn the tax down to 0 (if it's not already), then juts import export stuff all day long, even if you just use export -- same problem, but takes twice as long to game it.....

perhaps import subtracts from the PI index, as long as different levels of PI goods have a different effect modifier, so that importing stuff into planet, upgrading it and shipping it out still has an effect

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Aeon Veritas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-08-03 09:49:34 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
the problem with using import/export is that you could turn the tax down to 0 (if it's not already), then juts import export stuff all day long, even if you just use export -- same problem, but takes twice as long to game it.....

perhaps import subtracts from the PI index, as long as different levels of PI goods have a different effect modifier, so that importing stuff into planet, upgrading it and shipping it out still has an effect
I've looked up a little bit about POCOs and came to the conclusion, that my idea is flawed. What?
My assumption was that the NPC-tax is is enforced everywhere and not just in High-sec and on Interbus Customs Offices...

The Idea with import subtracts and export adds to the index is quite interesting because in the worst case, if the people who do PI don't speak with another, they could maybe screw up the index.

Another approach to the m^3-claculation could be to make it blunt like mining.
The with the extractor harvested m^3 contributes to the index but the refining (i.e. manufacturing higher PI-goods) does not contibute.

Zevix wrote:
But dont let this stop us from continuing to throw new ideas out there either, the more we contribute, the greater tha chance something good makes it into the game. We could maybe even call in to question the military index, ratting is far and away the more popular nullsec activity than industry so maybe it could use a once over while we are crunching numbers and looking for a more equal representation of activity to index.
I have to agree, but under the aspect that the mechanic shall not be abusable, it's quite hard to come up with something practicable...
Zevix wrote:
If we are going to be stuck with fozzie sov, lets at least make the most of it.
^THIS, SO MUCH THIS^