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A question about the Eve Culture
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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#81 - 2011-09-12 22:08:35 UTC
Demon Azrakel wrote:
wrote decent reply, hit post, it erased everything, back button does nothing

Love the new forums...


Ive gone to copying every long post I make before hitting post, just in case.

Oddly, I hug high sec, have created 7 pilots over the years, and never had a issue with people trying to grief me. Ive been at the reciving end of griefing war decs, but if I really wanted I can just jump corp. And sure Ive gotten popped in low sec and w-space. But only because I was in there and not being careful.

Also eve university does show you how to do PvP. In wars they run huge fleets with the intent of making the war not fun for the other corp. But in peace time you can get into small low sec romps and in-corp contests. (The best way to make sure Eve Uni does not teach blob warfare is to insure they have no war decs). Once you think you know enough, you can go to a different PvP training corp.

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Grimm Hounds
SONS of BANE
#82 - 2011-09-12 22:10:07 UTC
Sombre Asesinos wrote:
Nothing in this post will be aimed at insulting anyone so please keep that in mind as you read (if you read).

I've played MMOs since June 6, 2001 when World War II Online was released. WWII Online was 100% pvp, you couldn't speak to the enemy, etc. However, the overall culture was still fairly open and neutral.

Most of the MMOs out there are the same game just with different skins attached to stuff. When I read the description of Eve I had fond memories of Starflight (from the late 1980s), exploring the unknown, discovering planets, running into new species, etc.

I fully understood that unlike most MMOs you cannot avoid PvP in Eve. I've never liked PvP because you have to completely change everything you do for PvP. PvP has always meant paying huge sums of money for the slightest increase in the quality of the smallest part of your gear. That all fine for those that like to PvP. Anyway, I understood I'd have to learn to deal with Pvp if I wanted to experience Eve.

I first started playing Eve in May when SOE lost all of its web services. Since then I've fallen victim to can flipping once (the guy picked up the can, then as if to say "oops I sorry put it back and started to move off"), I stumbled into a 0.4 system before I knew what that meant, my noobie ship was obliterated with the 1st shot, my pod with the 2nd. I've not repeated either of those mistakes. I ventured through a wormhole once, I started exploring, I got jumped by a group of five T3 cruisers that made quick work of my brutix.

I've listened to players talking to each other, I've read some posts in the forums, the trolls usually manage to drown out anything of value, so I don't come here often.

There is a significant percentage of established Eve players that seem to absolutely Hate new players and view them as tresspassers. These players also do everything within their power to make new players so miserable that they leave. I've heard the phrase "Eve isn't a nice place.". Well no it isn't. These established players do everything within their power to run off new players.

While this sadistic behavior may be fun, at some point Eve as a whole will begin to suffer. A number of my SWG friends came to Eve, some of them were Avid pvpers. They have all left not because they don't like pvp, not because they didn't like Eve, not because they couldn't learn, but because of the absolutely hateful treatment they received. I've been lucky, I'm met some really helpful people that have helped me learn to stay out of trouble. Well more trouble anyway.

Why are the Veteran players so Resentful of the new players? I would think they would be glad for new players, that they might even try to recruit and train new players...

Sorry, I'm just extremely puzzled.



i haven't been playing MMO's for very long, but i've been playing online-only titles since 2005. the PVP aspect of this game is the only thing that interests me. where else are there so many targets to shoot at?

while i understand that it seems like the established players are 'unfriendly', the truth is: the more money you have, the less money they have. taking one isk away from you makes the victor a very small percentage richer, and that's all there is to it. the truth is: isk rules eve, and that's the difference between this one and all the others.

the more people out there are broke, the more money the rich people have... it's a lot like the USA
Holy One
Privat Party
#83 - 2011-09-12 23:35:32 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:
wrote decent reply, hit post, it erased everything, back button does nothing

Love the new forums...


Ive gone to copying every long post I make before hitting post, just in case.

Oddly, I hug high sec, have created 7 pilots over the years, and never had a issue with people trying to grief me. Ive been at the reciving end of griefing war decs, but if I really wanted I can just jump corp. And sure Ive gotten popped in low sec and w-space. But only because I was in there and not being careful.

Also eve university does show you how to do PvP. In wars they run huge fleets with the intent of making the war not fun for the other corp. But in peace time you can get into small low sec romps and in-corp contests. (The best way to make sure Eve Uni does not teach blob warfare is to insure they have no war decs). Once you think you know enough, you can go to a different PvP training corp.


Pffft.

:)
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#84 - 2011-09-13 02:09:45 UTC
Holy One wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:
wrote decent reply, hit post, it erased everything, back button does nothing

Love the new forums...


Ive gone to copying every long post I make before hitting post, just in case.

Oddly, I hug high sec, have created 7 pilots over the years, and never had a issue with people trying to grief me. Ive been at the reciving end of griefing war decs, but if I really wanted I can just jump corp. And sure Ive gotten popped in low sec and w-space. But only because I was in there and not being careful.

Also eve university does show you how to do PvP. In wars they run huge fleets with the intent of making the war not fun for the other corp. But in peace time you can get into small low sec romps and in-corp contests. (The best way to make sure Eve Uni does not teach blob warfare is to insure they have no war decs). Once you think you know enough, you can go to a different PvP training corp.


Pffft.


care to elaborate on that extremely intelligent post?

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Arcon Telf
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2011-09-13 05:34:21 UTC
I cannot overemphasize how important it is to get hooked up with a corp of like-minded individuals as soon as possible regardless of your interests.

I'm pretty sure CCP tries to emphasize that, too.

Yes, Eve is a PVP game through and through – whether your PVP is on the market or in nullsec. But it is also a cooperative game above all else. Sure, it's possible to play Eve without assembling a motley crew of bad guys, but that seems pretty oppressive to me. All of my favorite times in Eve have been had in the company of friends.
Sombre Asesinos
Doomheim
#86 - 2011-09-13 16:53:32 UTC
Mechanoid Kryten wrote:
I have found that the harshest part of eve -- and the eve community -- are the forums. If you can survive in General Discussion you can survive anywhere.

Most eve players do not go on the forums.


I think this is true of virtually all forums. There is usually a core of outspoken overbearing people that manage, by design or accident I'm not sure which, to dominate the forums and thus silence the majority.

As for the three incidents I mentioned. Someone asked me if I'd done any reading.

I knew that going into a system rated at 0.4 had the risk of pvp. What I didn't realize is that I'd die instantly from an advanced cruiser. I know I would find it boring as hell to sit and one-shot kill anything. So I was betting on being such a boring target that I'd be left alone. Little did I know that killing my Navitas would in some circles be held equal to killing a big battleship. I made the bet, I lost.

As for the wormhole incident, I knew I was "tresspassing". I allowed myself to be come distracted by rats so I didn't notice the group of cruisers come in until I was half dead. I still almost got away. Afterward I started a conversation with one of the guys from that group. I wanted to negotiate some mining rights with me giving them a significant share. Turned out these guys were Russian. They had two main things to say, "Everyone hates a neutral!" (I'm still not sure what they meant by that). They asked me what country I was from and I made the mistake of telling them I was from the USA. I thought to myself, "holy cow I thought that type of thinking might have died down some in the last 20 years". I promptly left the channel :).

I viewed both of these as learning experiences, in both cases I knew I was taking a risk. In both cases it turned out not to be an acceptable risk.

As for the can flipping... I fell for it hook, line, and frigate.
Sombre Asesinos
Doomheim
#87 - 2011-09-13 16:55:38 UTC
Oh, I forgot to mention.

The tutorials are agonizing. I've done most of my learning on Google.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#88 - 2011-09-13 17:15:56 UTC
I love everybody cept the asshats.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Lharanai
Fools of the Blue Oyster
#89 - 2011-09-13 17:46:05 UTC
The reason why I still play eve?


The feeling after I lost my first Navy Issue Apoc in a mission because I was too lazy looking up eve-survival

Escaping a blob, this really feels good

Getting really emotional about griefers with to many neutral alts



I play EVE because it can create real emotions...which I lack in other games, point.

Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#90 - 2011-09-14 01:10:09 UTC
As one of those *gasp!* ...nOObs (it should be said with the proper lip-curl of disgust, mmk? :D ) some despise, I'd like to say that from my perspective (that being being a *gasp again* nOOb, of course) what has been said here is right on. There are jerks in EVE, that's for sure, but there are also some really decent people, and all types in-between .(hmm...come to think of it...it's a lot like society in general. mmm?...)
I can see where it would get old answering the same questions over and over and not knowing who is going to be alive...er...still playing next week so you don't wanna get to know them or deal with them. That one thing goes a long way towards explaining the often-apathetic-seeming-sometimes-worse attitudes of more experienced players toward myself and my fellow nubs. Totally understandable.
This game sure is fun "in spite of it all" (meaning all the grief in it in general). If I could I'd tell all my nugget compadres - just don't quit. Maybe I've done this EVE thing the hard way so far (actually, knowing myself - very likely...) as I've been tipped, ripped, gypped, and blown up multiple times already. Being slapped around and kicked in the teeth is just the way it goes starting out in EVE, it seems. (I am glad to have learned it wasn't just me shortly after I started playing) Flying these little internet spaceships around is fun, though.
I'm glad I was sent a free trial as I discovered I like this game quite a bit.
Glad to have started reading these forums too...I see one can learn a lot from just them...even the troll droppings?...cool...
'K - back to in-game noobstuff - Cya

EvE security zones in pictures

EvE quick reference pdf

EvE links
Sombre Asesinos
Doomheim
#91 - 2011-09-14 16:05:15 UTC
Richard Aiel wrote:
However, meanies aside, if youre mining an youre having major issues with ppl can flipping you
ur doin it wrong

I say that withe this advice:

Go somewhere people are not. Dotlan is a great way to find this out, as is the in game map. I wont give system examples as that would be counterproductive. I have maybe been can flipped 5 times in the time Ive been playing. Thats since '07.
How? I go places other people are not at and mine. Dead ens systems without stations for example. Or systems without stations at all for that matter.


I've found the best way to avoid the can flippers is to stay out of 0.8 to 1.0 systems. That's not to say you won't see them elsewhere but those systems seem to be their favorites.
Arctur Vallfar
Knights Adamant
#92 - 2011-09-14 16:50:23 UTC
One of the first few posters put it the best. It's simply business and nothing personal. A group of players in a fresh corporation typically have less SP's under their belts. This is a weakness, when concidering PVP related actions, to be taken advantage of. I'm pretty sure most people who play EVE Online enjoy, or should enjoy, the flow of new players trickling in to the server. If this game ceases to recruit, EVE Online and CCP would cease to grow as well.

The same would apply to even a large crowd of griefers.

In regards to avoiding can flippers, it's quite easy. You could simply avoid high population star systems, or more elaborate methods. Such as mining with a companion in a cargo ship that can nab your ore out of a deployed secure cargo container. Although honestly I love toying with them. Occaisionally I'll feed them ore from a jet can with psuedo anger and promiss that I'll get in to my Drake as soon as 'my buddy gets online'.

My record so far for wasting a can flippers time was 6 hours.
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#93 - 2011-09-14 18:25:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Russell Casey
Sombre Asesinos wrote:
Turned out these guys were Russian. They had two main things to say, "Everyone hates a neutral!" (I'm still not sure what they meant by that). They asked me what country I was from and I made the mistake of telling them I was from the USA. I thought to myself, "holy cow I thought that type of thinking might have died down some in the last 20 years". I promptly left the channel :).




"Everybody hates a neutral" basically sums up 0.0 in a nutshell and explains why most people stay out of it. People deal with neuts all the time in empire, often profting both parties because they don't have legions of grunts/peons to throw at all their problems like the power blocs can. In that regard, why would you bother dealing with someone you don't have direct control over?

As for being from the USA, it's time to enjoy this greasy cheeseburger while I "liberate" something.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#94 - 2011-09-14 18:43:03 UTC
Sombre Asesinos wrote:

Why are the Veteran players so Resentful of the new players? I would think they would be glad for new players, that they might even try to recruit and train new players...



Actually I love new players, and have recruited a bunch of these little :spai:s. It all comes down to the guy behind the key board. If he is chill and doesn't act like an entitled emo raging 13 year old little girl, then he/she/it should be just fine.

And Vets are not resentful of new players, just the little n00bs that feel they are entitled to the same thing everyone has that has been in the game 5 or 6 years.
cyka776
#95 - 2011-09-14 19:27:27 UTC
does the owl hate the mouse? does the blue whale hate the krill? maybe some do but probably not many
Richard Aiel
The Merchants of War
#96 - 2011-09-14 20:26:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Aiel
Sombre Asesinos wrote:


As for the can flipping... I fell for it hook, line, and frigate.



I dont mine in a system with more people in it than asteroid belts.
Hence I dont have issues with can flippers. They never go where I mine lol

Open up the map. look at the stats for "number of jumps in the past 24", and "number of active pilots in space" and if you use dotlan and look for a low population system without a station. These are all well known ideals so its not like im gining out any secrets lol

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/buddahcjcc/SOA-3-2.jpg
Zen Sarum
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2011-09-14 21:06:46 UTC

I have run a corp to help new players and faced with new players unwilling to learn or be helped. I have met others willing to help and who wanted to learn and they have gone on to great things. In the end if you don't go out and find what you want in EVE. IF you don't give and hence receive trust from those who offer help and learn to recognise the blatantly obvious greifers and people who want to use you then you never get anywhere, just like in real life.

I have been lucky in the first people I met in EVE and I still happy to just go out and explore every facet.

I have met both amazing generous and kind people and the worst kind of scum you can think of in EVE.

I have met people who killed me and then helped me and people who have helped me then tried to kill me.

I have horribly killed new players who where terrible. I have run corps to help new players not to be terrible.

In the end the most rewarding experiences have been helping new players get their first kills, giving my time for free to a big projects that come to wondrous fruition, running fleets into hell and coming out alive, and taking massive risks and gains flying tightly with some great people on my wing.

The one thing I learned pretty quick in EVE is its not the game or other people when you die horribly or tire of EVE, its YOU .. playing EVE wrong. After I figured this out I started learning and having fun.
Fawcks
Doomheim
#98 - 2011-09-15 12:02:36 UTC
TL;DR something about World War 2. What is the question?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#99 - 2011-09-15 12:56:39 UTC
Sombre Asesinos wrote:
Mechanoid Kryten wrote:
I have found that the harshest part of eve -- and the eve community -- are the forums. If you can survive in General Discussion you can survive anywhere.

Most eve players do not go on the forums.


I think this is true of virtually all forums. There is usually a core of outspoken overbearing people that manage, by design or accident I'm not sure which, to dominate the forums and thus silence the majority.

As for the three incidents I mentioned. Someone asked me if I'd done any reading.

I knew that going into a system rated at 0.4 had the risk of pvp. What I didn't realize is that I'd die instantly from an advanced cruiser. I know I would find it boring as hell to sit and one-shot kill anything. So I was betting on being such a boring target that I'd be left alone. Little did I know that killing my Navitas would in some circles be held equal to killing a big battleship. I made the bet, I lost.


What about the billion ISK worth of implants you had in the cargo hold of your "boring" little T1 frigate?

What's that you say? That no-one would be dumb enough to move that amount of value around lo-sec in a frigate?

Guess again! Lots of people do it. Not everyone, not the majority, but quite a few. Shooting small ships like yours in lo-sec is like buying a lottery ticket. Sure, the chances are I've just wasted a few seconds of my time and some faction ammo that cost as much as your whole ship to kill you, but maybe, just maybe, you'll have something valuable and I'll hit the jackpot.

It's not personal when i shoot your boring little T1 frigate. It's not because I hate new players. It's not a campaign to drive you out of the game.

It's just business.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016