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Named Drifter is a **** Move
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Ravay Kanjus
Infinity Blue
#21 - 2015-07-21 07:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravay Kanjus
Jack Morrison wrote:
Ravay Kanjus wrote:
Yeah if this is some new AI they'd put into PVE missions, missioning is dead. If they shoot wrecks great, you've got nothing to loot or salvage. 40-60+% of the ISK from level 4s sometimes comes from loot and salvage.


Dear sir, here is where you are quite wrong.
They make missions like that (more exciting, dangerous, unpredictable) - pilots will find that content atractive.
Example - playing chess vs. watching the same movie all over again, surely the chess game is more exciting as it is not that predictable compared to watching the exact same movie for the 103rd time.

If 40-60% of your income from missions is loot and salvage - i must say you are doing it wrong or missioning for a corporation with a pisspoor LP store.

If CCP adds new content - they don't have to remove the old, so you will still be able to watch your movie - while the rest play chess.


Ok so I didn't add in loyalty point rewards. Regardless, a large chunk of mission rewards vanishes if wrecks are removed. I could live with it, if I was refunded all those skillpoints put into salvage. What else am I going to salvage? Wormhole wrecks? Haaa... no the market value of wormhole salvage is dirt anymore.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2015-07-21 10:24:45 UTC
Ravay Kanjus wrote:
Ok so I didn't add in loyalty point rewards. Regardless, a large chunk of mission rewards vanishes if wrecks are removed.

And you can finally use all that time to do more missions and make everything back.

That said, NPCs carpet shooting their own wrecks makes no goddamn sense and there's nothing to gain for CCP in it while gutting decent business plans and potential newbro income. I'd relax if I were you.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Projak Dynamo
Pro Synergy
#23 - 2015-07-21 11:21:03 UTC
NPCs that shoot loot!!! OMG, my world would end. I mean what would I even need a Noctis for?

The Pro Synergy Pilot is not just a fighting man, he is a salvage expert. If it is lost, in the blackness of space, he will find it. If it has been destroyed, he will loot and salvage it. If it is in his way, he will move it. If he is lucky he will be podded 20 jumps from home, for this is the closest he come to being hero.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#24 - 2015-07-21 13:23:03 UTC
They also salvage and collect corpses.
Johnathan Coffey
Niforce Triggers
#25 - 2015-07-21 16:21:55 UTC
This thread was thoroughly entertaining.

First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2015-07-22 13:31:20 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
I don't get the whole "oooh it's super smart AI that killed you"

No, it's the ******* death ray of capital threatening doom shooting that kills them.

You could slap that **** to Dread pirate scarlet and she's farm people for lulz all day long.


tl;dr: Doomsday >>>>>>>>> AI
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#27 - 2015-07-22 13:43:50 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I don't get the whole "oooh it's super smart AI that killed you"

No, it's the ******* death ray of capital threatening doom shooting that kills them.

You could slap that **** to Dread pirate scarlet and she's farm people for lulz all day long.


tl;dr: Doomsday >>>>>>>>> AI



No, OP engaged on a gate. Was too far from gate to make it back. Drifter BS neuts, warp disrupts, and webs. All then while doing around 1000+ dps with its regular weapon.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2015-07-22 13:54:01 UTC
Not really AI though, is it?

It's overwhelming firepower.


If you gave those weapons to belt/mission rats, the results would be largely the same.


It's a bit like saying concord has good AI. It doesn't, it just has access to the "LOL I WIN!" buttons.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#29 - 2015-07-22 18:23:44 UTC
I'm just saying it wasn't the doomsday that killed OP.

There are belt rats that point you, but none of them are as powerful as the Drifters.

Best option for engaging Circadian Seekers right now is on a Gate (within jump range), and on Station (within docking range). That way if Drifter BS warps in, you can dock or jump.

The elements the Seekers drop do net a nice amount of isk. Think they sell for 8mil a piece, but haven't checked market recently.
Whiskey Haze
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-07-23 00:13:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Whiskey Haze
I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome.

The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up.

I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting.
Ravay Kanjus
Infinity Blue
#31 - 2015-07-23 01:34:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ravay Kanjus
Whiskey Haze wrote:
I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome.

The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up.

I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting.


This was my thought when I lost an Ishtar from killing Circadian Seekers and 3 drifters showed up labelled something like "Circadian Sleepers". Misread, stayed around long enough to target and didn't get warp scrambled but woah did I hit that warp button the second I saw my shields melt. I was too slow, but I was able to come back and nab the wreck contents. Was amused at how fast they wrecked, ultimately. This new shooting wrecks bit is what has me angry.

Edit: At least there's some confirmation. My annoyance on wondering if it's a bug is abated. I just hit a billion ISK again, too. lol.


- - - - - - - - -
GM Confirmation bit.
- - - - - - - - -
Jack Morrison
Team Liquid crp.
#32 - 2015-07-23 04:35:46 UTC
Ravay Kanjus wrote:
Whiskey Haze wrote:
I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome.

The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up.

I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting.


This was my thought when I lost an Ishtar from killing Circadian Seekers and 3 drifters showed up labelled something like "Circadian Sleepers". Misread, stayed around long enough to target and didn't get warp scrambled but woah did I hit that warp button the second I saw my shields melt. I was too slow, but I was able to come back and nab the wreck contents. Was amused at how fast they wrecked, ultimately. This new shooting wrecks bit is what has me angry.

Edit: At least there's some confirmation. My annoyance on wondering if it's a bug is abated. I just hit a billion ISK again, too. lol.


- - - - - - - - -
DELETED
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Dear pilot and do yourself a favor and remove the message from the GM from your post, it is forbidden to post GM/CCP communication.

As for the drifters / Seekers - CCP told us they would make them more powerful with the coming patches. So it needs a few sacrifices from the pilots to find out how powerful :D

Looking for a group to pew with ? Have a chat with me.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2015-07-24 06:24:26 UTC
Whiskey Haze wrote:
I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome.

The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up.

I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting.

Arguably, we currently don't have much of it. We have players that flag themselves for drifter aggression, then we roll dice and determine if he dies (terms and conditions apply). Sure, CCP change different bits here and there, but once they stop, it will go back to normal levers and formulas, except this time it will be mostly about avoiding semi-random encounters with predictable results rather than tanking predictable DPS or something.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#34 - 2015-07-24 08:01:20 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Not really AI though, is it?

It's overwhelming firepower.


If you gave those weapons to belt/mission rats, the results would be largely the same.


It's a bit like saying concord has good AI. It doesn't, it just has access to the "LOL I WIN!" buttons.


thats what gets me with pretty much ever "NPC AI blah blah" thread. Although just giving npcs abilities to make choices (pretty much an aggro table, and triggers at least in the current designs) doesn't really do anything with general NPC capabilities.

NPCs have a long way to go before they are ready for AI imo. with burners it seems like they have the intention to work on it. I'm not familiar enough with drifters to say, although it seems to mostly be overwhelming ability from what I've seen. General NPCs, holy needs a revamp batman.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#35 - 2015-07-25 00:43:39 UTC
You realise drifters don't have equivalent EHP to a player BS yet even.
Compared to a buffer fit BS they have about 1/5th the EHP. And since they have no local reps buffer fits are what we should be comparing them to. Their neuts aren't as powerful as a Heavy Neut either from what I know. Their points are a little nasty at 5 strength, but honestly in most cases 1 strength would hold you just fine, and the range isn't much more than links give.

So...... other than the DD they are still actually inferior to most player battleships.
Kharnakh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2015-07-25 18:47:29 UTC
Yeah I found out the hard way about the drifter scrams today too (https://zkillboard.com/kill/48065433/), they must have added that with Aegis.

They didn't shoot my wreck though, nor did they shoot the alt in a rookie ship i sent to fetch the dropped mods (thank you loot fairy, appreciated =P), well at least not till I'd finished and i attacked them to see if i could work out if they scrambled or just disrupted. No dice though, they one shotted it without warp jamming, haha.
Rea Rose
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-07-28 13:01:27 UTC
Ravay Kanjus wrote:
Whiskey Haze wrote:
I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome.

The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up.

I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting.


This was my thought when I lost an Ishtar from killing Circadian Seekers and 3 drifters showed up labelled something like "Circadian Sleepers". Misread, stayed around long enough to target and didn't get warp scrambled but woah did I hit that warp button the second I saw my shields melt. I was too slow, but I was able to come back and nab the wreck contents. Was amused at how fast they wrecked, ultimately. This new shooting wrecks bit is what has me angry.


I lost a faction fit gila to Artemis. it was my own mistake for not looking at the screen for 5 seconds and only then seeing i am for 50% in armour. I was to slow to warp out.

to be honest i learned a lesson. that is what makes this game good.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#38 - 2015-07-28 13:18:07 UTC
Has anyone tried to alpha a Drifter BS, or does the "overshield" kinda negate that idea?
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-07-28 14:56:53 UTC
Why the heck would one shoot at a named npc in space without googling it? Also, why the hell do it in your most expensive ship?
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#40 - 2015-07-28 17:16:42 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Why the heck would one shoot at a named npc in space without googling it? Also, why the hell do it in your most expensive ship?


So that others may learn well from that person's mistakes, making it possible for the rest to learn the "easy" way. Trouble is, that process means someone's gotta bite the bullet and take one for the team and for science.

Why no google? Maybe he/she did and came up empty. Why in a Rattler? Complacency, the mind set of "Rats in High Sec can't be that bad, right," would be my guess.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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