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I have no idea what im doin
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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#21 - 2015-07-28 01:26:47 UTC
Level IV missions are among the hardest missions in EVE. You should not expect to be able to do them yet.
Just because you can 'SIT' in a ship, does not mean that you will be competent in that ship. Battle ships take several months to skill for. I'm guessing you are still in your first month. Even now, I bet a level III takes you forever to complete. IV's are a huge jump from that, and almost any ship you would try, will die.

You can make a ton of ISK doing level III's in a Drake. It will be safer and give you time to skill up properly.
When you do start level IV's, buy a T1 ship, and INSURE that ship. After you lose a couple you'll see why all this advice is given.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#22 - 2015-07-28 02:20:09 UTC
new players can run lv4s rather easily, with the introduction of the MJD it is probably the easiest it has ever been. However it requires knowledge of missions, and focused training. I'd say start with a domi as that will give you a large portion of skills that will be useful on the Vindi and the Rattler. Get skills for t2 tank, t2 damage mods, faction sentry drones, Micro jump drive, gal bs 4. Select drones and hardeners for the mission, warp into the mission, MJD out to a safe range and snipe things as they fly at you. For many missions you probably won't even need the MJD, but a nice escape button to have.

that said with low dps it might take a long time to finish the missions. And it might be better to run level 3s.

I would only bother with the passive drake, if you like watching paint dry. A mostly lv4 bs will out damage the drake no problem.

Gila not a bad idea, can get into it with not so great skills. the drone bonus is a role bonus so that is a huge advantage right there. plus you only need to be able to launch 2 drones.

I was going to give you a domi fit, but I just remembered that rattlesnake prices are so low you might as well just go right for it. Although the drone optimal and tracking bonus on the domi is pretty strong. The fit you posted earlier is pretty much fine for either one. pretty much just need to change the missiles for rails, and the damage mods. although it might make sense to just drop the gun/missile damage mods and just focus on drone damage amps. maybe swap for an armor tank. either way at 100km most npcs can't hit you and you mostly just want some kin/therm resist for the gurista missiles that can.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#23 - 2015-07-28 02:26:58 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Seriously, I have a 16m SP alt who is aiming at flying battleships. That alt will have another ~7 months training before undocking in anything other than a ratting VNI or an Epithal.


dare to be bold pilot. that sounds horribly over cautious

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#24 - 2015-07-28 03:24:58 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Seriously, I have a 16m SP alt who is aiming at flying battleships. That alt will have another ~7 months training before undocking in anything other than a ratting VNI or an Epithal.


dare to be bold pilot. that sounds horribly over cautious


It's an alt on a hard Int/Mem remap. Currently used basically as a PI alt (with sweet, sweet Navigation skills). It'll get there, I'm not in any huge rush.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#25 - 2015-07-28 07:09:35 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Seriously, I have a 16m SP alt who is aiming at flying battleships. That alt will have another ~7 months training before undocking in anything other than a ratting VNI or an Epithal.


dare to be bold pilot. that sounds horribly over cautious


It's an alt on a hard Int/Mem remap. Currently used basically as a PI alt (with sweet, sweet Navigation skills). It'll get there, I'm not in any huge rush.

right that makes sense then P When I was at 16m sp remaps didn't exist, max out that sp gain!

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#26 - 2015-07-28 07:50:48 UTC
Apoq Surrat wrote:
As far as simply training the right skills, decide what battleship you want, and look at its MASTERY skill list.

I recommend before you start level 4 missions, that you have Mastery 4 for the ship you are flying.

Shocked

While I agree that 1.8 million SP, even if very carefully focussed, is not going to allow profitable L4 running; (IV) Mastery is crazy!
Because several of the skills required for mastery are (to my mind) low priority it is very possible to run L4s conventionally with (II) at most.
Armour Compensation skills for example have no effect on active hardeners (any more) and Sensor Compensation skills have negligable effect unless you're running against Guristas...

There are several ships and tactics which make L4s viable for quite low skill investment and with the right path it should be possible to run them very quickly - the bottlenecks are likely to be funds and standings.

If the funds are available (and knowing that the 'snake or the Vindi are the goals) I'd probably head towards the 'snake from the Caldari Missile side first - grinding standings in ships like the Corax, Caracal and Drake to start with. Depending on how much that brings in the choice is then whether to go for the Gila or the Raven/Navy Raven (which I would run with an MJD and Cruise)...
The fact that the Alliance Tournament is close is an important consideration in this choice - it is quite likely that there will be a number of Gila-based team set-ups and that the cost of the Gila (and of replacing the Gila) is going to rise significantly if they perform well in the first weekend...
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#27 - 2015-07-28 08:47:56 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
...The fact that the Alliance Tournament is close is an important consideration in this choice - it is quite likely that there will be a number of Gila-based team set-ups and that the cost of the Gila (and of replacing the Gila) is going to rise significantly if they perform well in the first weekend...


No, sorry burst your bubble Jacob. You may only field two of each boat this year since it would be ludacris to field three good ones.
But if would be cool to see the return of some long range guns in the tournament.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#28 - 2015-07-28 09:09:10 UTC
Honestly Drake to start. Gila if you are still interested then Ride the snake in about 6 months.


You need about 8m SP focused into only what you need for what you are flying to do it well. Downgrade the T2 to meta as needed. This tanks 220 dps omni and does 313 missile and 99 drone dps at max skills. Total fit is 77m at jita prices right now. Will take you about 2 weeks to skill up and sit in. Hell I can give you 100m to get yourself sorted with a drake no questions asked. Dont bother with faction anything keep it simple. You can also swap out your invuls for specific hardeners based on rat types but that is a different lesson.

[Drake, Drake L3 Mission]

Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II

Missile Guidance Computer II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile
[Empty High slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5
Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#29 - 2015-07-28 09:10:14 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Jacob Holland wrote:
...The fact that the Alliance Tournament is close is an important consideration in this choice - it is quite likely that there will be a number of Gila-based team set-ups and that the cost of the Gila (and of replacing the Gila) is going to rise significantly if they perform well in the first weekend...


No, sorry burst your bubble Jacob. You may only field two of each boat this year since it would be ludacris to field three good ones.
But if would be cool to see the return of some long range guns in the tournament.



But its drones online now.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-07-28 10:28:46 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
Apoq Surrat wrote:
As far as simply training the right skills, decide what battleship you want, and look at its MASTERY skill list.

I recommend before you start level 4 missions, that you have Mastery 4 for the ship you are flying.

Shocked

While I agree that 1.8 million SP, even if very carefully focussed, is not going to allow profitable L4 running; (IV) Mastery is crazy!
Because several of the skills required for mastery are (to my mind) low priority it is very possible to run L4s conventionally with (II) at most.
Armour Compensation skills for example have no effect on active hardeners (any more) and Sensor Compensation skills have negligable effect unless you're running against Guristas...

There are several ships and tactics which make L4s viable for quite low skill investment and with the right path it should be possible to run them very quickly - the bottlenecks are likely to be funds and standings.

If the funds are available (and knowing that the 'snake or the Vindi are the goals) I'd probably head towards the 'snake from the Caldari Missile side first - grinding standings in ships like the Corax, Caracal and Drake to start with. Depending on how much that brings in the choice is then whether to go for the Gila or the Raven/Navy Raven (which I would run with an MJD and Cruise)...
The fact that the Alliance Tournament is close is an important consideration in this choice - it is quite likely that there will be a number of Gila-based team set-ups and that the cost of the Gila (and of replacing the Gila) is going to rise significantly if they perform well in the first weekend...



Along with their inevitable nerf if they dominate the scene.
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2015-07-28 11:59:38 UTC
As a new player with 4.5m SP, I was told that I shouldn't even consider getting into anything bigger than a cruiser before I have T2 weapon systems and tanks. Not to mention all of the essential core fitting skills.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2015-07-28 12:02:18 UTC
i rushed into bs asap as well.

but it was not fun. my skills were too crappy to kill anything quickly making missions hard.

i wouldnt bother for now if i were u.

learn everything small from the gorund up until ur skills are perfect or near perfect.

think about battleships later.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#33 - 2015-07-28 12:29:05 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
...Along with their inevitable nerf if they dominate the scene.


They were nerfed pretty hard with that sov patch because of one boat that ruled them all.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#34 - 2015-07-28 12:31:38 UTC
Lea Mala wrote:
ok so 30 day 1.8 mil SP and im here to ask to a question,what should I chose for lvl 4 missions ?I want to know what skillz to start traning and if yes what to buy a Rattle Snake or a Vindicator? and if u decide to waste ur time for me then may I ask for Vindicator fit also?thank u


A Dominix with Sentry drones is best imo if you have the skills.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#35 - 2015-07-28 12:52:10 UTC
Lea Mala wrote:
ok so 30 day 1.8 mil SP and im here to ask to a question,what should I chose for lvl 4 missions ?I want to know what skillz to start traning and if yes what to buy a Rattle Snake or a Vindicator? and if u decide to waste ur time for me then may I ask for Vindicator fit also?thank u


There is a number of ships, concidered good for L4 missions. Vindicator is not on the list:
Maradeurs
Rattlesnake
Machariel
Dominix.

Maradeurs are T2 BS, too much time to train so I will not discuss them here. Golem can be a target for the far away future for sure.

Rattlesnake is a sniper boat for a relaxed and effective missioning.
Machariel is a adrenaline machine for up close and personal combat. If you swap those two, than even very same mission will give you absolutely different eperience. L4 are often considered repetitive and therfore boring, here I see the way out.

Both ships require gallente BS skill.

Here we come to L4 powerhorse - Dominix. It is not that effective as other two (that means you will need more time to finish missions) but it is very newbee friendly. Because of its unique drone optimal range bonus. You can just sit 100 km away from the targets and still hit them with max DPS (NPC will be inside optimal of your drones). Range is your tank, so not that much pressure on def skills.

[Dominix, over 150 km]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Shadow Serpentis Large Armor Repairer
Damage Control II
Federation Navy Drone Damage Amplifier

Large Micro Jump Drive
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link, Optimal Range Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Optimal Range Script

Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Radio L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Radio L
Dual Modulated Heavy Energy Beam I, Radio L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II

Garde II x5
Warden II x5
whole bunch of medium / light drones.

Use meta 4 damage control, downgrade guns if you low in fitting skills or want to get rid of faction modules.
This sniping fit can manage even caldari navy since your targeting range 170 km, your drone control range is over 150 km and OPTIMAL of your warden II drones is over 150 km as well. You put over 650 DPS that far....
At close range (33-60km) your Garde II and imperial multifrequency gives you almost 1000 DPS cold.
Guns are there to kill small rats as they burn toward you at 0 transversal speed. Guns dps sucks but they still able to kill frigates / destroyers since those NPC has paper tank and need to fly 100 km under fire. Crystals allow you adjust range very quickly.

To run mission quickly you need to adjust your damage type to enemy weakiest resist. Use eve-survival site to find exact info about rats in mission, what kind of damage you shold apply. Drones is a way how gallente ships do selective damage type.

In many missions you will encounter EWAR. It is very disturbing to sit there and do nothing but tank. Ewar can be dealed two ways - auto-targeting missiles and sentry drones. Even if you jammed to 100 % your drones will still fire. And they usually fire exactly at jammers first.

So skill now to drones and gallente BS. You will use them in Rattlesnake as well. Untill you are good in skills and get enough knowledge what are trigers and how to shoot them in proper order - fly Dominix.

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Orlacc
#36 - 2015-07-28 15:09:55 UTC
Too soon OP. If you don't get blown up, it will take an hour or so to do a L4 mission.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2015-07-28 20:38:01 UTC
Johnny Riko wrote:
As a new player with 4.5m SP, I was told that I shouldn't even consider getting into anything bigger than a cruiser before I have T2 weapon systems and tanks. Not to mention all of the essential core fitting skills.

T2 tank and some misc modules? Sounds reasonable. T2 guns before using BS for lvl4? They are not strictly needed and that's a massive overkill IMO. Considering that with most turret ships you will be using T1/faction ammo most of the time, all you will get from T2 guns is specialization bonus at a price of extra fitting (and cap if applicable) requirements. New-ish player really doesn't need those, especially since it takes rather long time to train for T2 large guns.

If you are going to fly in PvP, then a lot of setups will not work without T2 ammo, that's true.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#38 - 2015-07-29 01:51:24 UTC
Johnny Riko wrote:
As a new player with 4.5m SP, I was told that I shouldn't even consider getting into anything bigger than a cruiser before I have T2 weapon systems and tanks. Not to mention all of the essential core fitting skills.


sounds like pvp and not pve advice. Most of the time in pve bigger is better, although it is still possible to rush into things too fast. I had cal bs 3, cruise missiles 3 (still do have that at 3), crap missile skills, but decent core/drone skills, when I got into my raven. and it worked. would it have been better to stick with lv3s for a little longer while I got some other skills up, probably.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#39 - 2015-07-29 02:02:38 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Lea Mala wrote:
ok so 30 day 1.8 mil SP and im here to ask to a question,what should I chose for lvl 4 missions ?I want to know what skillz to start traning and if yes what to buy a Rattle Snake or a Vindicator? and if u decide to waste ur time for me then may I ask for Vindicator fit also?thank u


There is a number of ships, concidered good for L4 missions. Vindicator is not on the list:
Maradeurs
Rattlesnake
Machariel
Dominix.

Maradeurs are T2 BS, too much time to train so I will not discuss them here. Golem can be a target for the far away future for sure.

Rattlesnake is a sniper boat for a relaxed and effective missioning.
Machariel is a adrenaline machine for up close and personal combat. If you swap those two, than even very same mission will give you absolutely different eperience. L4 are often considered repetitive and therfore boring, here I see the way out.


eww sniper rattlesnake. pretty sure I run and complete about 5 missions in the time it takes for a "sniper" rattlesnake's missiles to get to the first target (maybe some exaggeration).

brawl rattlesnake all day. when you do 1700 dps who even cares about the tank. which by the way xl booster with a cap injector you can still fit a huge tank. (dps ranges from 1500 with wardens, 1600 with gardes, 1700 with gecko, to 1800 with augmented ogres, with shiny damage mods and 5% missile implants)

mach can be fit for ac or arty. most of the time I would probably suggest the AC fit, but for some missions the arty version is nice to have. the mach is so fast I usually just fly it, get addicted to the speed/agility.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-07-29 06:08:40 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
...Along with their inevitable nerf if they dominate the scene.


They were nerfed pretty hard with that sov patch because of one boat that ruled them all.


The Gila got nerfed? How? When?
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