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[Bounty Hunting] A Solution to Create a Near-perfect System

First post
Author
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#21 - 2015-07-27 03:30:53 UTC
There are still problems that have been mentioned, but the bounties offered could list both last time and location docked.

The bounties offered could be weighted to region or by jumps from current location, or even jumps from a selected location, though that begins to make targeting a friend or alt more possible- you go someplace remote and keep turning them down till you get yourself.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#22 - 2015-07-27 03:33:38 UTC
This is why I suggested you CANNOT turn them down, they expire by time only and automatically. You could theoretically get yourself but the odds would be terrible.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#23 - 2015-07-27 03:40:03 UTC
Boba Mereel wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
I see nothing in this proposal that explains how this "near perfect" system of yours is going to work in high sec?

How do you propose to allow for a hunter to kill a target with a bounty and NOT incur the wrath of Concord?


The bounty right allows the hunter to kill the target anywhere(except in stations of course), anytime. Please note that bounties will more often than not be placed on pirates and gankers more than anything else, so killing pirates and gankers in lowsec and highsec will actually help the flow of trade as now there is a force to counteract pirates and gankers.

So you are proposing that a PLAYER can place a bounty on ANYONE in the game and doing so means that the player with a bounty get NO Concord protections in high sec? I can only begin to imagine the ways this can be used to grief other players.

Even worse than this is the fact that a member of the CSM would side with an idea that allows players to circumvent Concord protections in high sec. These are indeed dark times for EvE.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#24 - 2015-07-27 03:57:48 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Boba Mereel wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
I see nothing in this proposal that explains how this "near perfect" system of yours is going to work in high sec?

How do you propose to allow for a hunter to kill a target with a bounty and NOT incur the wrath of Concord?


The bounty right allows the hunter to kill the target anywhere(except in stations of course), anytime. Please note that bounties will more often than not be placed on pirates and gankers more than anything else, so killing pirates and gankers in lowsec and highsec will actually help the flow of trade as now there is a force to counteract pirates and gankers.

So you are proposing that a PLAYER can place a bounty on ANYONE in the game and doing so means that the player with a bounty get NO Concord protections in high sec? I can only begin to imagine the ways this can be used to grief other players.

Even worse than this is the fact that a member of the CSM would side with an idea that allows players to circumvent Concord protections in high sec. These are indeed dark times for EvE.


Let me fix that for you.

It allows a player to offer to another player, chosen at random, the time-limited opportunity to bypass CONCORD. Unlike the current bounty system, this right would be rescinded after a single kill and is non transferrable. It is similar to kill rights in many ways, except less exploitable.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Boba Mereel
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-07-27 04:02:21 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Boba Mereel wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
I see nothing in this proposal that explains how this "near perfect" system of yours is going to work in high sec?

How do you propose to allow for a hunter to kill a target with a bounty and NOT incur the wrath of Concord?


The bounty right allows the hunter to kill the target anywhere(except in stations of course), anytime. Please note that bounties will more often than not be placed on pirates and gankers more than anything else, so killing pirates and gankers in lowsec and highsec will actually help the flow of trade as now there is a force to counteract pirates and gankers.

So you are proposing that a PLAYER can place a bounty on ANYONE in the game and doing so means that the player with a bounty get NO Concord protections in high sec? I can only begin to imagine the ways this can be used to grief other players.

Even worse than this is the fact that a member of the CSM would side with an idea that allows players to circumvent Concord protections in high sec. These are indeed dark times for EvE.


"All bounties in the game currently would be wiped and you would only be offered the option to place a bounty after being killed by that target as long as it meets the following criteria.

1. The killer wasn't at war with you in FW.
2. The killer wasn't a WarDec.
3. The killer wasn't CONCORD.
4. The killer wasn't an NPC.
5. The killer wasn't a Drifter.
6. The killer wasn't in your corporation (If friendly fire is legal) at the time of the kill.
7. The killer did not have bounty right on you. (You can't set a bounty on a bounty hunter because you're butthurt that he caught you)"

I'd also recommend reading my other post, they patch up some of the details I left out by mistake.
Boba Mereel
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-07-27 04:16:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Boba Mereel
Mike Voidstar wrote:
There are still problems that have been mentioned, but the bounties offered could list both last time and location docked.

The bounties offered could be weighted to region or by jumps from current location, or even jumps from a selected location, though that begins to make targeting a friend or alt more possible- you go someplace remote and keep turning them down till you get yourself.


A "spy network"(I'll come up with a better name later), which is completely separate from the bounty office would give you the last known station that your acquisition docked in. In the long run I also predict that player-ran channels will be made that have scouts posting positions of people with bounties on them, for an ISK fee of course.

Idea This would make another career available for those who like a more logistics esque role, a Roamer or Patroller... or Bounty Tracker (again I'll come up with a better name later), that doesn't engage in bounty hunting but reports the positions of people with bounties on their head for a fee as a side job, while exploring, hauling, mining, etc.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#27 - 2015-07-27 06:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Good idea, well presented. You would need to include a minimum bounty level (accumulated) before a player was entered into the pool to prevent troll bounty placements. Otherwise everyone who enters Jita would no doubt get 100k placed on them so they were put into the pool. I don't like the idea of only being able to bounty people who have aggressed you.

You would definitely want to be able to pick up a number of targets at a time, otherwise it would be discouraging when Fred the Carebear decided to go on holiday for a couple of weeks. Preferably the system could even match a hunter's prime time with a target's prime time.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-07-27 07:24:03 UTC
A few issues

1) 'Just clear current bounties' sounds nice but are you talking about waving a magic wand and erasing billions from the game, billions that people spent on bounties? Or trying to figure out who gets what share of a diminished bounty returned back to them?

2) If you can quick cycle the bounties then I would set a bounty on someone and rifle through the files to have my own personal concord avoidance ticket to gank people with. If it had a time delay then it would die as you wound up with folks who hardly ever log on except to find fights.

3) Only people who killed you? So scammers cannot be bountied anymore? Is that only people who got the kill report or anybody who was on the kill even with a single gun or drone?

a) I do like the spy network but I would modify it to show the last ten gates the person took with time stamps

b) I agree that the bounty system needs a rework

c) I really like the idea of matching the bounty common usage of time slots to the hunter

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#29 - 2015-07-27 07:36:52 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
1) 'Just clear current bounties' sounds nice but are you talking about waving a magic wand and erasing billions from the game, billions that people spent on bounties? Or trying to figure out who gets what share of a diminished bounty returned back to them?

Maybe bounties should degrade over time.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#30 - 2015-07-27 07:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: TheExtruder
nice idea, bounty hunting as a career is currently non existent in eve despite all those fancy looking numbers and stamps on our portraits, its such a big lie to new players that they cant even begin to understand the extent of the lie yet, they have to walk around in circles in search for the truth about the mechanics, i cant tell you how many times ive heard newbies make assumptions about the mechanics. better to remove the system completely than to lie about it with a system that is pretending to be something it is not.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#31 - 2015-07-27 08:31:19 UTC
The biggest problem with this idea is that it reduces bounties to a "good guy" only mechanic that can only be used against pirates and suicide gankers. Why should I not be able to bounty a person who steals from my corp, or a rival corp that is competing for my ice belt, or just insults me in local? Mechanics should attempt to maximize player choice and freedom to foster conflict and emergent gameplay, not limit it to contrived situations.

That said, I think a functioning bounty hunter profession could be created from the killright system itself. Make a new contract type for the enforcement of killrights. Players could offer a price for bounty hunters to enforce thier killright, placing a limit on the ISK amount destroyed or the class of ship to ensure no collusion between the target and the bounty hunter. You could even offer such "hit contracts" without a killright so criminals could gank for hire or players outside of highsec where killrights don't matter could use them to pay someone to stalk an enemy.
Banana1x
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-07-27 08:45:00 UTC
+1 I like this idea. Just needs some more ideas bounced around. I haven't read every post, so sorry if this has been suggested before.

Here's my thoughts...
1) Allow players to provide intel on wanted players. Either via the character sheet if they're in the same system/station. Or via a cargo scanner if they are in proximity. This will give the player a 5% and 10% bounty respectively (split between all involved intel players) if the wanted player is killed within the next hour.
2) Provide a small security status increase for intel players and to the bounty hunter when a successful kill happens.

I'm kinda of the opinion that bounties should only be placed on aggressors and maybe only should be submitted from your kill mail. I understand the counter argument that we should be free to place bounties on scammers, but let's face it, they generally don't undock and we want the bounties on people who actually fly around and play the game, not sit in station.

You could dig into this a little further and have insurance automatically place a certain percentage of the payout as a bounty across all aggressors.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-07-27 08:55:49 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I like this system, or the general idea of it, a lot. If only one person can hunt you, even in hisec, I don't imagine you'll see freighters ganked left and right. Just make it so when you get your random target it expires in say three days. If you can't find the person by then you lose the bounty and someone else can get it from the pool. Maybe limit to five targets at a time.





Wha.... ? Bro, do you even Eve? How does this have anything to do with ganking? AND you're on the CSM? Bob Help us.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Banana1x
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-07-27 09:11:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Banana1x
Zappity wrote:
You would definitely want to be able to pick up a number of targets at a time, otherwise it would be discouraging when Fred the Carebear decided to go on holiday for a couple of weeks. Preferably the system could even match a hunter's prime time with a target's prime time.


Yes.

5 at a time and you can change each one for a random new one after 24 hours should you not successfully find and kill them. Also, I think a target should be given to up to 3 bounty hunters at a time. This would give people the opportunity to team up with others to track them down or try get the bounty before the others.

Bounty hunters will not know who the other bounty hunters are.

The more I think about it, the more it seems that insurance payouts should be solely used to automatically set bounties as a percentage of payout across all aggressors. This would increase the pool of available bounties and encourage people to pay insurance.
TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#35 - 2015-07-27 10:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: TheExtruder
highsec pvp took a serious hit this summer because of the focus on sov, which was deliberate and expected. maybe now they will focus on highsec pvp mechanics, which by the way is so broken that it is clogging pathways and preventing prosperous careers

- moar pvp mechacs that inspire interaction (such as redoing bounty hunting, or introduce tournament style play)
- improve NPE to inspire interaction and boost recruitment (open new markets for the vets in the rookie systems)

winter of highsec gogo
Amanda MonteCarlo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-07-27 11:05:48 UTC
Improvement in bounty hunting is necessary, but that's not the way.

It would be better to have bounty contract in which you would specify:

- Target - Character/Corporation/Alliance
- Ship type - (Hac, T3, Titan, etc.) and/or cost (over 100m over 1B etc.)
- Area - high sec/ low sec/ null sec/ constellation/system
- Time – e.g. between 18.00 - 00.00 EVE time

This would allow you to make contracts such as - kill Code Taloses in Uedama between 18.00 and 22.00
ISK goes to the guy who did the final blow.
Bounty + small fee is covered by issuer

Overall I believe this would create very interesting gameplay, and make a bounty hunter profession viable. As a plus it's completely player driven, no NPC involved. Also unless you mess up with the contract there's no way to exploit the system
TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#37 - 2015-07-27 11:19:47 UTC
Amanda MonteCarlo wrote:
Improvement in bounty hunting is necessary, but that's not the way.

It would be better to have bounty contract in which you would specify:

- Target - Character/Corporation/Alliance
- Ship type - (Hac, T3, Titan, etc.) and/or cost (over 100m over 1B etc.)
- Area - high sec/ low sec/ null sec/ constellation/system
- Time – e.g. between 18.00 - 00.00 EVE time

This would allow you to make contracts such as - kill Code Taloses in Uedama between 18.00 and 22.00
ISK goes to the guy who did the final blow.
Bounty + small fee is covered by issuer

Overall I believe this would create very interesting gameplay, and make a bounty hunter profession viable. As a plus it's completely player driven, no NPC involved. Also unless you mess up with the contract there's no way to exploit the system


so whoever issues the contract has to do the scouting and the stalking of the prey?
Amanda MonteCarlo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2015-07-27 11:30:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda MonteCarlo
TheExtruder wrote:
Amanda MonteCarlo wrote:
Improvement in bounty hunting is necessary, but that's not the way.

It would be better to have bounty contract in which you would specify:

- Target - Character/Corporation/Alliance
- Ship type - (Hac, T3, Titan, etc.) and/or cost (over 100m over 1B etc.)
- Area - high sec/ low sec/ null sec/ constellation/system
- Time – e.g. between 18.00 - 00.00 EVE time

This would allow you to make contracts such as - kill Code Taloses in Uedama between 18.00 and 22.00
ISK goes to the guy who did the final blow.
Bounty + small fee is covered by issuer

Overall I believe this would create very interesting gameplay, and make a bounty hunter profession viable. As a plus it's completely player driven, no NPC involved. Also unless you mess up with the contract there's no way to exploit the system


so whoever issues the contract has to do the scouting and the stalking of the prey?


Why? The entire proposal is against pointless 100k ISK bounties.
If you want to put a bounty on somebody you should have a reason. If you have that reason there's no need for stalking etc.
I imagine bounty hunters will look for lucrative contracts and do the stalking.

Interesting bounty would be 100m for a command ship and T3 killed in low-sec :-)
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#39 - 2015-07-27 11:34:16 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
A few issues

1) 'Just clear current bounties' sounds nice but are you talking about waving a magic wand and erasing billions from the game, billions that people spent on bounties? Or trying to figure out who gets what share of a diminished bounty returned back to them?

2) If you can quick cycle the bounties then I would set a bounty on someone and rifle through the files to have my own personal concord avoidance ticket to gank people with. If it had a time delay then it would die as you wound up with folks who hardly ever log on except to find fights.

3) Only people who killed you? So scammers cannot be bountied anymore? Is that only people who got the kill report or anybody who was on the kill even with a single gun or drone?

a) I do like the spy network but I would modify it to show the last ten gates the person took with time stamps

b) I agree that the bounty system needs a rework

c) I really like the idea of matching the bounty common usage of time slots to the hunter

m



Mike I'd imagine it would be trivial to simply refund bounties to the people who placed them. You'd have a journal entry and could easily place them again. As I suggested I'd say you CAN'T cycle them at all, there would be a timer of maybe three days where you are assigned your bounty, or a maximum of a handful (5?) bounties. And I don't imagine there should be limits on whom you could bounty, but maybe limit how many active bounties you can place at a time, to limit griefing.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

TheExtruder
TheExtruder Corporation
#40 - 2015-07-27 11:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: TheExtruder
Amanda MonteCarlo wrote:
TheExtruder wrote:
Amanda MonteCarlo wrote:
Improvement in bounty hunting is necessary, but that's not the way.

It would be better to have bounty contract in which you would specify:

- Target - Character/Corporation/Alliance
- Ship type - (Hac, T3, Titan, etc.) and/or cost (over 100m over 1B etc.)
- Area - high sec/ low sec/ null sec/ constellation/system
- Time – e.g. between 18.00 - 00.00 EVE time

This would allow you to make contracts such as - kill Code Taloses in Uedama between 18.00 and 22.00
ISK goes to the guy who did the final blow.
Bounty + small fee is covered by issuer

Overall I believe this would create very interesting gameplay, and make a bounty hunter profession viable. As a plus it's completely player driven, no NPC involved. Also unless you mess up with the contract there's no way to exploit the system


so whoever issues the contract has to do the scouting and the stalking of the prey?


Why? The entire proposal is against pointless 100k ISK bounties.
If you want to put a bounty on somebody you should have a reason. If you have that reason there's no need for stalking etc.
I imagine bounty hunters will look for lucrative contracts and do the stalking.

Interesting bounty would be 100m for a command ship and T3 killed in low-sec :-)


i dont know, isnt stalking your prey half the Joy of being a hunter? wounding and scaring your target, picking on him until he reacts on his own accord, there needs to be room for shock and awe tactics. the timing window where you can pressure your target has to be bigger and the freedom to hunt for as long as it takes for the hunted to finally react to being pressured. in other words the next bounty hunter mechanic might have to involve some kind of 'obligation to respond' when being pressured by a hunter, which means all capsuleers must get effective weapons to defend themselves with, some sort of anti-bountyhunter weapons for each stage of the hunt (like a constant back and fourth exchange and dance throughout the hunt).