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Crime & Punishment

 
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"Bounty Hunting, Assassinations, Executions" House of Black and White

Author
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#1 - 2015-07-27 05:09:53 UTC
This is a multi-part series offering insight and potential regarding varying game play styles that is often over looked or deemed unconventional. This piece will deal with the aspects in the title.


Bounty hunting, assassinations, executions, we've all at least somewhat familiar with the concept. Bounties are in the game itself, but due to the nature of Eve (we're immortal) the system is mostly irrelevant. Payouts are limited and divided among multiple people in order to avoid abuse of the system. Once in a while you will see an individual offering money for killing X individual in Y ship. Often the bounty is fairly meager or subject to some sort of scam.

I sat and pondered the reason these issues arise and I've come to the conclusion that there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what exactly one should try to accomplish. At face value one party pays another party to target an individual and destroy their ship. Most of the time this individual will fly a ship with a value under 500 million isk and so the client will offer a bounty around that value.

Considering that the individual will more than likely fly with a group of people, which will require the hunter to bring their own group of people thus splitting the profit, coupled with the amount of time and work one has to put in to find the target, we can see why the system simply doesn't work.

If the target can never truly die, nor can we set up an efficient isk ratio kill set up, one has to ask "then what is bounty hunting etc trying to accomplish?" The answer is uncertainty. Clients/Hunters should seek to make their target feel that they are no longer in control of their own destiny. That is something that requires more than just a killmail, and it is worth more than just a few hundred million as well.

In order to do this, one must infiltrate the target's group, spend time learning about them, find out what kind of individual the target is. Lastly, when the target feels most safe, perhaps running a site or exploring a wormhole, that peace of mind must be taken away. That target must feel that their group has been compromised and they no longer have a safe place. Now that is more valuable to an immortal capsuleer than any ship.



For inquiries for this and other services, come and visit us at the House of Black and White.

And remember, take care of your friends and take care of your enemies.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-07-27 05:15:41 UTC
This is too complicated, long, detailed and boring.

Can i pay you to stop making threads like these?
How much for one week?
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#3 - 2015-07-27 05:17:39 UTC
Disclaimer: Not for double digit IQ'ed individuals.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#4 - 2015-07-27 09:23:59 UTC
So all that above was to try and sell a service? Too long winded for a good sales pitch. 4/10

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2015-07-27 11:33:04 UTC
Duno why but I read that in Seamus Heaney's voice, wasn't disappointed.

Sounds fairly interesting, don't mind if I start lurking your channel.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#6 - 2015-07-27 11:40:21 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
So all that above was to try and sell a service? Too long winded for a good sales pitch. 4/10



No, it was to bring awareness to a play style that I believe many would enjoy.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2015-07-27 12:38:44 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
So all that above was to try and sell a service? Too long winded for a good sales pitch. 4/10



No, it was to bring awareness to a play style that I believe many would enjoy.

I appreciated the presentation, certainly piqued my interest.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#8 - 2015-07-27 12:47:16 UTC
Isn't this just regular mercing with a ppk pay structure?
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#9 - 2015-07-27 12:57:29 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Isn't this just regular mercing with a ppk pay structure?



No. It's an article concerning how we can better understand such play style on behalf of the House of Black and White, which is a public channel everyone is welcome to use to exchange ideas and network for such a service among many others.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#10 - 2015-07-27 16:15:14 UTC
We already have a thing for that, it's called Merc Contracts and it's been working fine for years and we don't even need ridiculously florid prose either.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#11 - 2015-07-27 17:56:40 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
We already have a thing for that, it's called Merc Contracts and it's been working fine for years and we don't even need ridiculously florid prose either.


You'd have to pretty much Hindenburg your entire primary school experience to consider what I wrote "florid prose." If you're unable to discern between the OP and the Merc Contracts channel, clearly there is nothing useful for you here.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-07-27 18:54:28 UTC
So what you are saying I think is that bounty hunting is a fail profession, so why not spend a potentially very long time spying on the carebears in their own corp to kill some dude's raven?

I got a better idea, much easier....

Get a big stack of nados/suitable gank vessels and a bunch of buddies. FInd target. Gank. Much quicker!

But maybe spying on carebears is fun? (I doubt it).
Domino Vyse
FeedingMachine
War and Wormhole
#13 - 2015-07-27 20:02:30 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
So what you are saying I think is that bounty hunting is a fail profession, so why not spend a potentially very long time spying on the carebears in their own corp to kill some dude's raven?

I got a better idea, much easier....

Get a big stack of nados/suitable gank vessels and a bunch of buddies. FInd target. Gank. Much quicker!

But maybe spying on carebears is fun? (I doubt it).


IMO its irrelevant if you think the service is useless, or the goal is better served another way. The service exists. Options are good and I'm sure someone will find a use for it.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#14 - 2015-07-27 23:26:55 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
So what you are saying I think is that bounty hunting is a fail profession, so why not spend a potentially very long time spying on the carebears in their own corp to kill some dude's raven?

Note that this is also now literally impossible.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#15 - 2015-07-28 01:25:08 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
So what you are saying I think is that bounty hunting is a fail profession, so why not spend a potentially very long time spying on the carebears in their own corp to kill some dude's raven?

I got a better idea, much easier....

Get a big stack of nados/suitable gank vessels and a bunch of buddies. FInd target. Gank. Much quicker!

But maybe spying on carebears is fun? (I doubt it).



Who is talking about spying on carebears? Why is your thinking so narrow? You're still missing the point. Ships are just things. If you want to actually hit someone where it hurts, you hit their sense of certainty.

But yes the current mechanics make bounty hunting (or whatever else people want to call it) a pointless failed profession in its conventional form and this is because the pay out system is poorly designed due to our ability to manipulate things, and because we're "immortal." Thus the profession must be understood in another light beyond simply ISK paid vs ISK killed.

Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Renegade Heart wrote:
So what you are saying I think is that bounty hunting is a fail profession, so why not spend a potentially very long time spying on the carebears in their own corp to kill some dude's raven?

Note that this is also now literally impossible.


Don't assume others have your limitations.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-07-28 15:59:34 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Who is talking about spying on carebears? Why is your thinking so narrow? You're still missing the point. Ships are just things. If you want to actually hit someone where it hurts, you hit their sense of certainty.


I thought you were?

Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
In order to do this, one must infiltrate the target's group, spend time learning about them, find out what kind of individual the target is. Lastly, when the target feels most safe, perhaps running a site or exploring a wormhole, that peace of mind must be taken away. That target must feel that their group has been compromised and they no longer have a safe place. Now that is more valuable to an immortal capsuleer than any ship.


Now this is not my cup of tea to be fair, although if others can obtain fun through this kind of thing then it's all good!

But if you want people to pay for your service, whatever this service is, then you need to convince people to part with their isk. Perhaps isk is not the motivation for you? I don't know.

Anyway, as a suggestion about pro-awoxing, a good idea is to not even let them realise they are being awoxed. This doesn't necessarily even involve shooting a corpmates ship in high sec. So yeah Vimsy this stuff is by no means impossible at all.

I wish you luck in your endeavour I just think ganking them would be easier and more effective.

Domino Vyse wrote:
IMO its irrelevant if you think the service is useless, or the goal is better served another way. The service exists. Options are good and I'm sure someone will find a use for it.


I respect your opinion but in addition to the service offered it was stated by OP that he wanted to network and discuss the ideas, hence my 2 cents is fair in this regard.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-07-28 16:53:16 UTC
+1 for this. Seraph is always looking for new ways to bring content.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment

Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-07-28 17:09:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
I see what you're going at. It's sort of like "The Count of Monte Cristo", Eve edition.

I'm not sure you can destroy a sense of certainty long term with traditional awoxing because after the big reveal it always comes back (after the awoxer is outed, etc...)

I don't see the market for this against carebears, tbh. All you have to do there is wardec, use decent hunting tactics, then tell them you knew how to find them because of your spy... They'll start dumping players and witch hunting... And never find the spy. This is actually more effective because the suspicion stays for quite a while and lots of innocents get accused.



I'm not really into that mean of gameplay, but I'm glad someone is. I like bad guys worse than me. Bad people are good content.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-07-28 19:24:14 UTC
What the OP is describing seems to go past just friendly ganking or wardeccing someone. The OP is talking about doing things that would really mess up someone's game. EVE: Gaslighting. Characters are immortal. You can get a billion ISK for about $20US, so it's not about making the target lose ISK. This would cause a lot of real tears...

Hmm....

Twisted

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#20 - 2015-07-28 22:41:20 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
Now this is not my cup of tea to be fair, although if others can obtain fun through this kind of thing then it's all good!

But if you want people to pay for your service, whatever this service is, then you need to convince people to part with their isk. Perhaps isk is not the motivation for you? I don't know.

Anyway, as a suggestion about pro-awoxing, a good idea is to not even let them realise they are being awoxed. This doesn't necessarily even involve shooting a corpmates ship in high sec. So yeah Vimsy this stuff is by no means impossible at all.

I wish you luck in your endeavour I just think ganking them would be easier and more effective.


Just to be clear, what I am providing is a platform to discuss such gameplay style. So for example if you came to me saying "I want X individual hit" we would discuss terms which may or may not include my further direct involvement in such a contract. More than likely I would find someone or a group of people that would actually carry out the hit. Also we should understand that the term "awoxing" is a bit vague concerning the method by which I would like to see used. Rather than having someone in the same corp/alliance putting the barrel to the back of someone's head, they would provide intelligence for the "hit squad" to carry out the task. In effect the target would probably not even know this was an inside job, except for the fact that we do want them to know that, thus taking away their sense of security and introducing uncertainty.

Leto Thule wrote:
+1 for this. Seraph is always looking for new ways to bring content.


As always, you are a gentleman and a scholar.

I see what you're going at. It's sort of like "The Count of Monte Cristo", Eve edition.

I'm not sure you can destroy a sense of certainty long term with traditional awoxing because after the big reveal it always comes back (after the awoxer is outed, etc...)

Mobadder Thworst wrote:
I see what you're going at. It's sort of like "The Count of Monte Cristo", Eve edition.

I'm not sure you can destroy a sense of certainty long term with traditional awoxing because after the big reveal it always comes back (after the awoxer is outed, etc...)


Monte Cristo is exactly how I would describe it, yes. But as detailed above the term "awoxing" is a bit vague and the method used is more than just "get person in corp, shoot green."


Mobadder Thworst wrote:

I don't see the market for this against carebears, tbh. All you have to do there is wardec, use decent hunting tactics, then tell them you knew how to find them because of your spy... They'll start dumping players and witch hunting... And never find the spy. This is actually more effective because the suspicion stays for quite a while and lots of innocents get accused.



That's exactly how I envision it working on many targets.

...and they can just...
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