Ships & Modules

OP is intentionally dense it seems.

Typhoon - wtfomg fast nano BS with rapid heavies (albeit RoF bonused), one heavy neut and cut-down dronebay
Typhoon Fleet - wtfomg fast nano BS with ridiculous base hp and rapid heavies (damage bonused ), heavy neut+smartbomb or two neuts and full drone bandwidth + full flights of praetors, valks and ec-300s/acolytes.

Typhoon has roughly 40k damage a clip, fleet phoon has roughly 55k a clip, quite a difference. Typhoon afaik ends up with some 5-7k armor hp depending on how throwing in crash/exile went for you, while a fleet phoon can have 9k-11k.

Since OP is claiming expert on fleet phoon pvp, explaining the advantages of two heavy utilities is not necessary.

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The two bonuses were never meant to be used in conjunction, they were meant to be sufficiently strong to allow for both styles albeit mutually exclusive. The question to replace the turret bonus is frankly the same as saying *I like missile fleet scythe better, pls remove it's turret-variation and give me more damage bonus for missiles* - no, doesn't work like that.

With your idea you get two BS with bonused missiles and drones.



[Typhoon Fleet Issue, Typhoon Fleet Issue fit]

Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

500MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Stasis Webifier II

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Entosis Link II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I


Ogre II x5
Warrior II x5
Warrior II x5
Warrior II x5

Going to have to explain your reasoning for this comment.

The artillery side of things leaves a bit to be desired. But, every arty ship is going to be tight, no way around that, so you'd need a 3% implant to use it. If you think outside the box, you can come up with gang/fleet type fits like this:

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, MJD Arty spider tank]
Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates

Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Bouncer II x5

If you had a group of these, MJD'n around the battlefield, you could pop things fairly quickly. Its got the same alpha as a 720 cane, but shoots faster, and has better ranges. With the RR, it means logi doesn't need to follow you when you MJD. Just rep each other. You also get the benefit of instant volley with artillery, where as cruise or heavies has a delay. Not good in fleet engagements where your enemy can catch reps. Not to mention, missiles need mods for application, turrets you just need transversal.

7.7s RoF, or 6.5 RoF with heat, using artillery. Those numbers are close to what MEDIUM 650 artillery does on a hurricane, at least in terms of RoF.

I found a use for the arty version in about 10minutes. Just because you can't think of a scenario where arty works, doesn't mean they don't exist. Is a solo arty kiter going to viable? No, probably will never work. But a solo a/c kite ship would work very similar to a pest, using the 2 heavy neuts to keep tackle off and popping things out between 20-60km.

Not to mention, minmatar and drones? No. Lets not have a race that needs to train 3 separate weapon systems to use all their ships well.

Currently, i can do 900-1200dps in my RHML FI phoon, then you want drone bonuses thrown in too? It will MURDER everything in scram range. Not to mention 2 heavy neuts will screw over anything below BS size, that decides to get within point range. Not only will someone be held down by dual webs, dual neuts, a TP, and 1200 dps of RHML fury, but then they will also have to compete against ogre's with tracking and optimal bonuses. Sounds perfectly balanced.

Yes, I use Typhoon FI's quite regularly, they are one of the best navy BS at the moment. Regardless of if you think the "gun" trait is useless, if you give it another bonus to compliment missiles or another weapon system, it will be horrible unbalanced.

@ stitch

i believe basic tempest would be more viable for what you EFTed there first would be the cost and instant and multiple times higher alpha not to mention 1400mm fits

you are doing sub 500DPS at 30km further out it start drop to really low numbers without alpha i struggle to justify why would you do that in a first place but hey game is supposedly to be fun too what the hell...at least you have decent tank on it and RR.

drones are mandatory to train if you are serious about your self.

[


This actually sound right RHML phoon is powerhouse on its own and it is not like i did not pointed out that drone is just my opinion however projectile bonus is redundant and obsolete. don't get me wrong i like to EFT stuff too but nobody in right mind don't fly it in AC/or Arty variant i believe your self included,there is no point.

It's just a legacy thing. When CCP rebalanced stuff, people wanted to keep certain bonuses so CCP retained the old ships as navy ships and no one ever used them again because their bonuses were obsolete. Added a lot of variety to the meta iirc.

Well, you're right about price. I had just woke up and my head was thinking basic Typhoon there.
The truth is, only one or two ways I have ever fit a Fleet Phoon, Torps and RR or Torps and Neuts.

To be fair though,
I think you asked about a gun fit, and he supplied one. And it's a reasonably good fit with over 1100 DPS.
Again, a guy with no missile skills would be good with it.

I didn't say a guy with NO SKILLS btw, And I wouldn't teach guys to be bad at EVE, BUT I will say,
Every fleet in EVE doesn't have to be a perfect doctrine of perfect ships. Sometimes it's nice to undock the kitchen sink and go try stuff out. It's a game, they're just pixels, not the end of the world.

Just to be clear, I do have a basic knowledge of EVE

The problem with fleet phoon and guns is PG.
It has noticeably less PG than a tempest. Even if you plug an RCU into the "spare" navy slot, you are still left with a ship with literally the same slot layout as a pest, but noticeably less grid. Of course there's lots of spare CPU. But for guns it's just that - spare.

Which, with the recent pest boost, makes it a sorta gimpy pest.
Well, not that gimpy. It's a bit faster and noticeably beefier, and is better with drones.
But has less turret DPS and can't fit the second heavy neut. Which is pretty much the pest's selling point.
Oh, and good luck with armour and MJD. Embrace the downsized guns.
Oh, and the price tag is approaching a mach.

Then again, the pest buff is at fault too. Maybe things will change with the further BS overhaul.

Most of BS hulls are used for PvE or in large fleets. I may be wrong here but I do not see much solo PvP in BS lately. Since I do not know, if there is any fleet doctrine, that would use guns on this ship, I would rather stay at what I have personal experience with - PvE.

From PvE point of view guns are not that usefull as missiles and that makes the gun bonus really absolete. You need big guns (less tank modules means more gank, more damage ) or some sort of defence bonus IMHO. Machariel has much more PG, so it can fit bigger guns. Why not give fleet typhoon some form of defense bonus? Or align/speed bonus? Even target painting bonus would be more interesting here, I think.

So I agree with OP - this bonus does not seem to be usefull. I do not thing, that mixing three damage systems is a good idea, so I rather see
missile rate of fire bonus (with less damage bonus if needed), or
warp speed or align bonus, or
defense bonus (shield resistance?), or
targeting range bonus or
even drone bonus, though drone bonus does not suit here that much due to all arguments, that were already mentioned in previos posts.

Ship, that would take a use of only one of bonuses will be always outperfomed by ship, that can utilise both of them. So I disagree with

for running some lv4s, my typhoon is great. i would happily upgrade to the fleet but it appears to be worse for that purpose due to the mixed bonus.

i would add another bonus to the hull, leave both gun and missile bonuses as they are either split or only one used, and give it something else too