Player Features and Ideas Discussion

more thoughts on jovian tech for those interested

* the investment of corporations into holding events need to be great, and so does the rewards.
* each time a neutral space is opened there are valuables inside it which can be collected by a crew of miners or explorers.
* for example the bigger the crew of miners that enter the less pvp ships will be able to enter after the crew.
* so if a corporation wants to maximize profits it has to have less pvp ships in its fleet to protect the jovian structure from invaders.
* rookie ships can enter neutral space without effecting the maximum capacity of people, but with a limit so it cant be abused)

more on jovian tech

* tournaments could be the first function that is unlocked for the jovian structure.
* for tournaments to be beneficial to rookies it could be able to include miners, explorers, missioners into the neutral space that is generated by the structure.
* the winner of a tournament could potentially be determined by the amount mined, the amount explored, the amount npc's killed. it doesnt always have to be about last man standing type of tournament.
* for example the more protection you bring into your mining op the more you sacrifice your yield. fair play is of course always the priority in a tourney.

i like the basic concept, but the idea needs to be developed from a simple race to something more complex in my opinion

I can get behind that, i'd love it to get down to the 3 sub sections. (I.e. Galls, maybe 1 is rails, 1 blaster, 1 drones) I have no issue with it being fleshed, out and it needs to, I just wanted to explain the concept I was looking at.

You'll probably need to qualify what the "skill point barrier" is. A lot of people in here think it's 0.

Which may fit with your playstyle (though I'm sure somebody will be along shortly to explain how much training time you've missed on a 10 year old character by not having +5s), but should anybody ever have to make the choice between training time and undocking? There are reasons to equip Snakes instead of Crystal. Or to go for +3% PG instead of +3% CPU hardwiring. Is there ever a reason to not have the biggest attribute implants plugged in?

Tell that to the good Dr. who's out 7+ months of training time because of sticking with +3s.

Not doing something because you can't afford it isn't a choice. I don't run L4s in a Marauder. It's not because I think doing it in a T1 BS is a better choice - I just can't use Mauraders yet. I don't put officer modules on my FW plexing frigate, not because Meta 3 is a better choice - I just can't afford it. These aren't gameplay choices, they're restrictions.

The restriction on attribute implants is particularly egregious because it's the consequence of going broke vs. the consequence of missing out on skill queue time. Pick your poison, because there's no good option here.

It might also be noted that the risks are increased without an increase on returns, which everyone would agree is counter-intuitive to the ways of Eve.

HS is supposed to have lower returns than low, low less than null, null less than WH.

However, in the case of attribute implants, you gain no more returns while taking more risks.

There's almost no chance of losing a pod in HS which means you can run +5s with almost no risk. In low you don't have to worry about bubbles so the risk to +5s is low, in null the risks are high especially in smaller fleets which have less return than large fleets, and you're almost guaranteed to lose a pod in WH space if you're unwittingly attacked.

So, the more risks you take by going into lower secs, the more chance you have to lose that isk while at the same time not getting anymore return than someone in HS.

Just remove attributes and remove implants. Then, you can give all players a base SP/hr so that we're all even.

Yes, getting quicker skill completion for the cost of isk does follow Eve principle.
However, when you then take those same implants into lower secs, you're putting more risks on them without any further returns.
THAT is against Eve principles. More risks is supposed to equal greater rewards.
As they are, it's more risks for the same rewards.

People would not be equal. Training times would be equal.

So, if you're ahead now on SP, you're always going to be ahead, and there will be no implants to allow someone sitting in HS to catch up on SP without worrying near as much about losing that isk.

Why should I at 2.5 years playing be able to catch up to someone who's been playing since the beginning of EvE?

Another point: You can always catch up to another player in *any given hull* as each hull only makes use of a finite list of skills and all of those skills are capped at V. Invest the same amount of training time as the older player in that subset of skills and you actually will catch up to the older player for that hull. Total SP is irrelevant.

TL:DR
Merge like manor skill groups into broader yet similar groups. 
Merge basic skills that do nearly the same thing but may effect different weapon/industrial aspects into a new broader skill that takes longer over all then a single merged skill to max out, but not as long as the collective whole. 
Maintain current Advanced/specialized skills as is (may need minor adjustments for balance). These advanced skills need to be what define what a character is used for, and I feel that they should be what takes time. These are what take a character form a Jack/Jane of all trades to a Journeyman/Master of that Trade.

I have come to love EVE. Through all the smiles, tears, and every other hard core emotion a person can have, I have learned to love it. But, where do we make change? Where do we look at an aged system/mechanic of EVE and go, how do we change this so it is easier for the NPE but still maintains benefits for our long-term players. 

I have read that CCP does not want to make changes skills, though discussion has been on increasing SP for new players and attributes removal. 

It is my fair opinion that to make any of the above changes (or to close the gap), to appease the newer players all while keeping the senior players happy, skills have to by default be changed and shaken up. 

A restructuring of their grouping, of their benefits, merger and SP required to gain new levels would all need to be looked at and decided if Skill A and B are close enough to go New Skill C.
Below is an example of ideas for how things could go.
The examples are from the look of the T1 skill (not skills that allow T2 use)
The point of any merger of skills is to reduce the “overhead” in the starting skills and allows players (new and old) to get into specialized professions.

1: Skill Group Armaments - would merge the current group of gunnery, missile, and combat drones. The basic individual turret skills could be merged into one skill (which takes longer to max out compared to just a single turret’s current requirements). Currently small torrents when specialized attribute mapped take about 7-8 days to train. If the new one (combining the 3 small turrets) took say a 16 days, it would reduce some of the overhead, but still take time. The specializing skills would still be as they are. The medium and large torrents would take 24-30 days and 50-60 days respectively. Similar treatment to missile skills. This would mean, that I would train Small Missile Hardpoints - which would allow/give me use/bonuses to T1 Light Missiles and Rockets.

2: Defensive - Merged Armor Shield sub categories. I didn't see any skills right off that needed any change. Maybe merge the Remote Armor/Hull skills.

3: Industrialization- Merges production, science and (possibly) resource reprocessing. The basic skills that give +1 to production/research slots could be merged. 

4: Leadership - Merges corporation management and leadership into one group. Just to clean up the two groups, as they both are really leadership skills.

5: Maybe merge trade and social categories into a Faction Interaction. Because both skill groups really effect how the player can be effected by the NPC system. Taxes, margins, income, standing/security increase/decrease. (This point was just a side thought, not really super happy with it but it follows the other themes)

SP reallocation? Any merged skills SP pools would be added together within their subgroup. The SP would be automatically redistributed with in the subgroup. If all skills are maxed or become maxed the left over SP would be redistributed slowly to which ever skill the player is training on.

Why pick this over the other options?
1: Increasing the starting SP for new players helps, but doesn't solve the problem. 
There will always be, no matter what choice is used to address the problem, a gap between new characters and old. The redoing of skills shrinks the gap at a higher % than increasing the starting SP.
2: Characters like mine, who are two years old loose out on the higher SP start if that choice is picked. A higher start up of SP is a kick in the teeth to players who have been paying in one form or another.
3. New gamers these days are used to being able to get in and get to doing things. When it takes maybe a few days to do a basic thing, but 3-6 months to do it decent? Would new players or any player really wanna wait that long if what they choose to do took months. And to master out the skills for a profession take years. (The players personal human skills are taken out of the equation)
4. New Players need to be able to log in - get to training and start making ISK or whatever they want with in the first few days. That first million is should take maybe a week in which every basic profession they picked. That first billion should come 5-7 months down the road.

I think and believe I covered everything.

also... p.s. CCP. I saw a new player the other day on a trial account. I couldn't p-chat with him. I couldn't mail him. I couldn't do **** with him. That to me is you all having a system that doesn't want people to stay. I would have loved to p-chat with him and help him with what he was doing... I could have been what kept the guy in game for months and years. All i know, when he changed systems, he was enjoying what he was doing. . . but for how long.