These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

What was so important to hide in order to violate a Yulai codicil?

Author
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#1 - 2015-07-25 20:36:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Why...?

"Disclaimer: this message does not represent corporate policy or my superior's views in any way and is purely my own statement."
Avio Yaken
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#2 - 2015-07-25 20:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Avio Yaken
Who knows...What we do know is that whatever happened is beyond suspicious...



Also...He activated a Entosis link on a Titan...didn't someone report that it was impossible to activate the link on any ship?

(.___________________________________________.)/

Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#3 - 2015-07-25 20:45:01 UTC
He was ordered several times to disengage and leave. Several. Times.

One doesn't go up to President Roden to give him a high five in the street and expect the security detail not to do something no?

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#4 - 2015-07-25 20:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
This is likewise a concern. Elder Mentor Raish had simply been scanning. While scans are usually frowned upon, he had already desisted, and was moving away at highest speed.

What's more, he was no closer than any other ship in the area, and there were dozens if not hundreds of ships in the area.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#5 - 2015-07-25 20:51:01 UTC
So in short, it was more important for her Imperial Witchiness to prevent him from getting away with the scan data (which he obtained in accordance with the Yulai Convention) than at least pretending to comply with international laws and accords. This isn't suspicious at all and we should all stop asking questions, surely.

At least her claim that we will never dare set foot there again was quite simply disproven as we came, spoke and then delivered token gifts to the graveyard. With honor and a crooked smile as Aldrith was quick to fire upon us.

I hope the symbolism doesn't require further explanation.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#6 - 2015-07-25 20:55:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
So in short, it was more important for her Imperial Witchiness to prevent him from getting away with the scan data (which he obtained in accordance with the Yulai Convention) than at least pretending to comply with international laws and accords. This isn't suspicious at all and we should all stop asking questions, surely.

At least her claim that we will never dare set foot there again was quite simply disproven as we came, spoke and then delivered token gifts to the graveyard. With honor and a crooked smile as Aldrith was quick to fire upon us.

I hope the symbolism doesn't require further explanation.


Please provide me the CONCORD law that allows one to use what appears to be an Entosis link on a Sovereign CONCORD Signatory's Leader's vessel.

Simpy, saying something was legal doesn't make it so. If CONCORD come back, and say it violated some treaty then I'll continue to retort that it was Amarr Space, and they were ordered to stop several times.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#7 - 2015-07-25 21:02:54 UTC
Onzo, Elder Mentor Matshi Raish provided you with that himself.

To quote:
Matshi Raish > Empress Jamyl, I say in public that our presence and actions here are lawful under the terms of the ninth codicil to the Yulai Convention.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#8 - 2015-07-25 21:04:13 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Onzo, Elder Mentor Matshi Raish provided you with that himself.

To quote:
Matshi Raish > Empress Jamyl, I say in public that our presence and actions here are lawful under the terms of the ninth codicil to the Yulai Convention.


And which section of it allows for the use of entosis links on our Empress' vessel? What existential threat was she?

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#9 - 2015-07-25 21:09:31 UTC
I'd say you'd have to ask Raish that question, Onzo. I'm not a legal scholar.

However, I suspect Raish was knowledgeable. What's more, I can verify that he's dedicated to obeying the dictates of the Convention. When IKAME was under threat of DED reprisal, he was the first one I contacted to seek sanctuary for our personnel. He stated both alarm and opposition, but that "we are also bound by interstellar law, and cannot be party to any activity deemed to be illegal or a risk to interstellar security."

Were it a Matari pilot with a grudge operating the link, I'd not contest the issue at all. However, Elder Mentor Raish was by no means a firebrand or a terrorist, but a scholar gathering data on something that concerned him.

I had been intending to offer her imperial majesty a gift of Drifter Hive Elements as a token of good will. Now, I'm glad the gift wasn't given, as the actions of today are questionable.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#10 - 2015-07-25 21:18:35 UTC
Kahar Dex
Imperial Dreams
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#11 - 2015-07-25 21:20:38 UTC

He was warned several times.

He was asked to state his intentions, for which he did not give adequate response.

For all we know, it was a security breach, or the Mentor may have had devious plans with the information acquired from his scans.

The Empress is in far greater knowledge of the affairs of the Empire than any of us. Let none presume.

Ignoring several warnings, and refusing to state intentions, his scans could have compromised sensitive military data or sensitive Imperial information pertinent to the security of Amarr. Furthermore using entosis links, which are known for their mind-controlled based technology reverse engineered from Drifters.

It was a threat. Plain and simple.

His Eminence Cardinal Kahar Dex of the CVA and Imperial Dreams. Follow The Cardinal: @kahardex

Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#12 - 2015-07-25 21:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
Che Biko wrote:
Did anyone else scan the Titan?


It's not just the scanning, it was an Entosis link that was used on a vessel. I've never seen that take place before.

To think what they're capable of against structures, and for it to be used against the Empress' own vessel..

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#13 - 2015-07-25 21:24:03 UTC
Disclaimer: this message does not represent corporate policy in any way and is my own statement.

Capsuleer ships. In close vicinity to the empress. They eagerly destroyed the fleeing science vessel as soon as they understood that there will be no repercussions from CONCORD.

Jamyl Sarum has violated the international law of CONCORD, the same law that the Amarr Empire has sworn to uphold. She issued an order that violated the ninth codicil to the Yulai Convention, which authorizes investigation of potential existential threats.

She was warned that the SOCT vessel was operating under this law by Elder Mentor Matshi Raish.

Matshi Raish wrote:

Empress Jamyl, I say in public that our presence and actions here are lawful under the terms of the ninth codicil to the Yulai Convention. ninth codicil to the Yulai Convention authorizes investigation of potential existential threats.


This is an outrage. This is unacceptable. You know who places themselves above everyone else? Above the laws? Criminals. Murderers. Scum that terrorizes the population of our cluster.

Sometimes laws must be neglected for the protection of others, for the cliche of "greater good". Was this such a case? Then who was right in this particular case? I call for a public investigation of this diplomatic incedent. This must not be hushed under the carpet.

That said, I offer a reward for the return of the corpse of Elder Mentor Raish. The bounty is a full set of elements retrieved from Drifter Hives: Barbican, Conflux, Redoubt, Sentinel, Vidette.

Best regards,
Jaret Victorian.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#14 - 2015-07-25 21:24:20 UTC
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#15 - 2015-07-25 21:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Dex, Vamai was relaying Raish's communications. Let me clip those together.

"We are investigating potential existential threats under the terms of the ninth codicil to the Yulai Convention. Our activities are lawful and essential. I repeat the ninth codicil to the Yulai Convention authorizes investigation of potential existential threats."

"Empress Jamyl, I say in public that our presence and actions here are lawful under the terms of the ninth codicil to the Yulai Convention."

Dex, Onzo, I am not Amarr. I am Caldari. The State has been a dedicated ally of the Empire for decades. However, we are not Imperial subjects. We are within our rights to wonder about the motivations and decision-making of our allies. To that end, waving off concern about the Empress Jamyl's actions with statements about how a Society elder mentor looked scary and was doing scary scanning that could mean he was a boogeyman belittles our intelligence and dismisses our concerns.

If the Empire is subject to CONCORD's laws, which it clearly is, then the Imperial fleet fired on a ship that had every right to be where it was. While I'm certainly not thrilled with DED's actions of late, my general view is that one should have a very, very good reason to violate that law. A creepy Gnosis is not a very good reason.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2015-07-25 22:05:24 UTC
To be honest, if the Head of state tells you to stop, you damn well stop if you're in her space.

Nobody should be allowed to ride roughshod over the sovereignty of a people, certainly not because of something as vague as an opinion on what is and is not an 'existential threat to the cluster'. The SOCT ship was free to use it's regular scanners - it chose to use it's weird ass Entosis link instead.

And it was warned.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#17 - 2015-07-25 22:07:34 UTC
An unauthorised ship activating a cyberwarfare device on the ship carrying a head of state.

Hardly surprising that the Navy didn't like that.

And everyone's losing their minds.

But it was ~harmless~ is the cry.

And how do you know that it was harmless ?

Prove it was not an attempt to disable the Empress's vessel, such that it could be attacked.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#18 - 2015-07-25 22:15:03 UTC
Tuulinen-haan, Valate, you're both forgetting one thing. The ship was downed after it was done. It scanned, it scanned some more, and it was headed away from the ship.

Timestamps and all:
[20:13:17] Matshi Raish > Very well, we have learned what we needed to learn.
[20:13:37] Jamyl Sarum I > Mentor Raish, you leave me no choice.
[20:13:50] Jamyl Sarum I > Amarr Navy escort, engage at will.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#19 - 2015-07-25 22:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
So? I used to catch thieves who had finished thieving all the time. Generally speaking, we mostly punish people after they've finished doing wrong.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#20 - 2015-07-25 22:27:47 UTC
To be completely honest you don't see a word combination "existential threat" plus a codicil of some probably long forgotten law waved by scientists at a head of a state.
123Next pageLast page