Intergalactic Summit

And if the slave's nature is tainted with 'inherent immorality', that poisons even the capacity to love themselves, then if they do not perceive the wisdom of the Scriptures, and do not understand the teachings of God, then are they at fault, or is the teacher? After all,



If the Reclamation is the responsibility of the Amarr, then why is it the slave, not the Amarr, that are held responsible when they fail in that responsibility?



With respect, the Thukker tribe and the group known as the Elders were not signatories to any treaties. The Republic Government as it existed at the time took no part in the attacks. Is either the Empress, or 'the Amarr' responsible for the actions of Amarr capsuleers in Fountain, or for those of splinter cults that claim to be acting in the Empire's interests? I would say not, that responsibility for the actions of criminals rests with those criminals.

As to assaulting God - what is a tantrum but a child's assault upon the perceived authority that limits them? Can God truly be assaulted? As you say, the attack inflicted anguish upon you, personally. Is it not possible that your rage is less a righteous response to an affront before God, and more an entirely understandable, perfectly natural response to personal injury, whether physical or emotional? We are all fallible, my friend, I do not think anyone would think the less of you for being human.

God, at least as he has been explained to me, would seem by necessity to be utterly unassailable, and above such things. That is not to say that he might endorse or condone such an attack, but the Lord is eternal - a minor delay or setback here or there would seem... a trivial matter against the Grand Design I'm told he has. Especially one he cannot help but have known would occur, long before the Amarr returned to the stars.

Anger can provide focus, renewed drive, and shore up resolve. Rage... rage is an unthinking, indiscriminate beast that rides a being until they break, ravaging them from the inside, withering our ability to see aught else, to respond with anything but rage and hate. Rage is a poison of the soul, a wound of the heart that has turned septic. Mourn. Grieve. But for your own sake... let go your rage.



And I remain curious on that front: How are errant infomorphs to be brought to Unity with God, if Reclamation is not an option?

I am shocked, pleasantly though, how constructive this thread is. Please continue!

Faith that hides behind cultural blindness and declares facts as subjective opinions is not faith at all , it is foolishness.

Faith in things beyond human comprehension that are rendered palatable because of cultural traditional interpretations, myths, or beliefs can help people move beyond perplexing questions of human existence and it's meaning. However these modes of dealing with things bigger than our brains can handle can have either a good result or a bad result, and those often can be factually determined.

An ancient document that gives me the right to subjugate all those who do not believe I and my people have been chosen by our God to rule all of creation is an effective means to help define the meaning of human existence and a very functional cultural means to an end.

That end being economic political theological military dominance of humanity.

Whereas the end is an objective factual goal it does not make the faith basis of it a fact, it is still a cultural myth, interpretation, or coping mechanism utilized for dealing with big picture concepts. Over thousands of years people become culturally blind to their myths and start to accept them as facts of faith, it is foolishness. It is a fact that imagination is real, but also a fact that things imagined are not always real.

Faith that is constantly redefined as a living document that conveniently serves current and ever changing political military and economic agendas is poorly disguised to anyone willing to think and use their God given brain.

My "faith" say it's so is not a convincing argument, no matter how deeply that faith is rooted in a cultural adaptation that functions well for the ends that a culture pursues.

To be Faithless is, in and of itself, an act of faith.

Many Matari are deeply faithful to their own dogma based on dead-ancestor worship. If what you say on faith itself is true, you condemn by default, a great many of your own people.

If you claim to have faith, but do not share another's dogma, then you are a hypocrite for condemning us, while you engage in some very similar behavior. Reasons and dogmatic differences aside, if you act on your faith against another's faith, you can't be angry at another person who does the exact same thing.

If you are of the small percentage in the Galaxy that have no faith or dogma whatsoever, then you really don't have much of a voice here, do you? Unless you agree with the first statement that your faith is is the non-existence of any god; that all dogmas are false. By saying this you agree that that you really don't know what you're talking about any more than the rest of us.

My "faith" says so, is the most compelling of arguments. For when a person acts on faith, he acts without fear. No...only idiots or the hopeless act without fear. A person with true faith transcends his fear.

So many words and still you said so little. Perhaps you understood even less. I did not condemn faith. Faith that is thought less is folly. If faith requires you to discount reality, your faith is a mere fantasy.

What can be measured are the results of a culture's faith. Does it elevate some by enslaving all others? Do you believe that is the desire of a God of creation? A God that imbued human kind with intelligence, compassion, love, and free will? My faith tells me that it is not God who compels the cults to enslave and torture and pillage their fellow human beings. They have been beguiled by the demon trickster and they relish the selfish joy of the benefits their evil deeds grant them.

No, "my faith tells me I have a birth right to be an inhumane torturer of children for generations" is not, and will not ever be a convincing argument.

Quote any stale ancient document you like, because any human recognizes pure evil once they open their eyes to the truth of provable facts.

Fact: Even with all your mighty military technology you still do not control all of the New Eden Cluster as you think God has reserved for you.

Fact: After many centuries you could not extinguish the true traditional faith of the Matari people who rose up against you to free as many of themselves as possible from your putrid clutches.

Fact: Your cult is losing the Militia war and more ground each day.

Fact: You are further from "reclaiming" today than you were yesterday.

I have faith your cult will never realize it's fantasy of complete dominance and my faith is based on the fact that nothing you have done in the past could extinguish hope and determination for all people to have freedom and justice and their God given right to worship in their own manner that does not harm anyone else.

As each human being must decide their beliefs within their own mind, I would say that Reclamation can only be measured on an individual basis. Anything that promises to do otherwise... lies.



Indeed - seven and a half years ago. When is 'soon'? When does this 'new age' begin? The pace of change may seem dizzyingly fast for some in the Empire, but to those who suffer in bondage, how can they not feel it to be agonizingly slow? What is one year, here or there, to those in power? To the slave, it may be the difference between release, and dying to the depraved madness of slaveowners like Nauplius.

Until every slave in the Empire is acknowledged the helmsman of their own life... I'm afraid the words of the Empress ring hollow in my ears. And, I suspect, in the ears of many of my people.

And it takes more resources to devote enough people to the task to work in ones and twos with a large population - not an accusation, there, just... the economies of scale work against our fundamental goodness to one another, sometimes, don't they?



The Federation, the Republic - perhaps even the Mandate would almost certainly help all those they could, as best they could. But as the representative for the Agency for Indenturee Rehabilitation said seven years ago, how many of those slaves have known nothing but the Empire? How many would not choose to remain where they are, if they had the opportunity to do so in freedom, with their full rights and reasonable compensation for their work? Change is upsetting to many, after all.

As for the economy of the Empire... free people work harder for their own gain than slaves do for someone else's. The Empire's economy hasn't suffered in the 3/4 of a decade since the Empress' decree, I suspect it would rather quickly bounce back from this, as well.

Pilot utari I find it odd that I am often shouted down as an impediment to peace when I insist on abolition. jamyl sarum has decreed that her people are moving in that direction.

Would it not be more productive to engage with people like me who are proponents of abolition but who also do not seek revenge that would bankrupt or destroy the common people of amarr? If indeed the followers of jamyl sarum are loyal than the time for hatred is at end. I think once the hatred is terminated, the true obstacle to peace would be in working together to make such a massive undertaking work for all parties concerned.

I believe in the basic decency of humanity, the followers of jamyl sarum are more than capable of being decent once they decide to be so.

The scope of the injustice only adds to the imperative to end it.



It saves face - unless yours is the face Nauplius and his ilk disfigure and maim. Where is the justice in deciding who is freed and who languishes based on an arbitrary measurement of how many of your ancestors died in chains? As strange as it is to say (and must be to have me say), it makes more sense to base emancipation on a measure of personal conduct and commitment to the faith. At least that would be morally consistent, rather than 'sorry, all of your great-great-great-great-grandparents were free, but maybe your grandchildren can buy you, if they can make enough money fast enough, convince your owner to sell, and oh yeah, make Holder status themselves.'

Why? Where is the onus for better education with Holders such as the ones I've discussed? Where is the impetus to not simply use all slaves of 8th generation to the point of collapse and ensure they never breed, or even offer them up as blood sacrifices - as they have indicated they continue to do - since they cannot gain anything from their progeny? Even beyond that, none of the slaves they own will be the ones to benefit, and the children of those slaves... born free... aren't their property, so why should they care what happens to free refugee children that are the Republic's problem, beyond just shipping them off to the Great Wildlands by the freighterload?