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Drone Boats, a little OP aren't they.
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Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-07-24 13:10:29 UTC
OP is fine with ECM and perma jamming people
But thinks drones are OP...



LoL ecm and lol-perma-jamming is op buddy

LolECM.

Literally worst mechanic in the entire video game
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#62 - 2015-07-24 13:18:34 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
If you TD or jam those drones you should be able to severely gimp their damage output.

TD has no effect on drones. Unfortunately.

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Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#63 - 2015-07-24 15:06:12 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Have you tried shooting the drones?


That apparently is outside of the OP's current ability.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2015-07-24 16:27:21 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
If you TD or jam those drones you should be able to severely gimp their damage output.

TD has no effect on drones. Unfortunately.



This is not correct.

Tracking disruptors are an effective counter to ships that run drones in pairs, specifically the gila or Gecko stratios.

OP is mad because he wanted to have an effortless gank by turning the target's ship off from 50k, and the Gila said no to that. I think it's quite funny.

I have been in MANY small encounters where I have had my droneboat's DPS crippled or negated due to loss of drones. It is very much a concern, especially in a ship with a smaller drone bay like a VNI. Keep in mind an Ishtar or Stratios often will be carrying many different types of drones. Sentries are absolutely useless against something in web/scram range and heavy drones can be renoved quite quickly by anything with a web.

And honestly, people complain about lack of content outside highsec and then I see this ****. You weren't even gonna give the guy a chance to fight back. You just wanted to drop a blob of ECM at range to completely remove any risk to yourselves, and you didn't have the sense to bring a TD or something that could hold point while outrunning medium drones. You undocked a bunch of risk-averse nonsense expecting an auto-win instead of actually putting some thought into how to deal with a specific target. 2 heavy DPS and ANYTHING with bonused webs or TD's would have made quick work but thinking is hard.

"Turn your ship off from 50k" fits are not the best choice in every situation, thank god. You'll know better next time.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#65 - 2015-07-24 16:39:24 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:


My point is that there really unbalanced compared to all the other weapon systems.


There will never be true balance. One thing is always a little better.

I'm just glad it's drones.

Because I love them!

Mr Epeen Cool
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#66 - 2015-07-24 16:49:09 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
My point is that there really unbalanced compared to all the other weapon systems.
Bull, it's the only weapons system that can be removed by shooting at it.


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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#67 - 2015-07-24 16:55:33 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
My point is that there really unbalanced compared to all the other weapon systems.
Bull, it's the only weapons system that can be removed by shooting at it.
To be fair, you can shoot missiles before they reach you if you train up that skill nobody ever trains. But for the most part, you hit the nail on the head.

Mr Epeen Cool
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#68 - 2015-07-24 19:18:27 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
If you TD or jam those drones you should be able to severely gimp their damage output.

TD has no effect on drones. Unfortunately.



This is not correct.

Tracking disruptors are an effective counter to ships that run drones in pairs, specifically the gila or Gecko stratios.
TD with optimal range scripts certainly doesn't have any effect on sentry drones. I was testing it in the context of making gank Vexor's fail. The DPS of the Vexor itself was toast, sure, but the Gardes kept hitting the target that was 15km away although they should have had an optimal range of 1125 m with a 95% TD applied.

If it's true what you say (and I don't doubt that), then it makes EWAR on drones even more weird than it already is, as obviously even the drone type and/or script type matters. More testing I guess ... *sigh*

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Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#69 - 2015-07-24 20:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Deck Cadelanne
Roxanne Dallas wrote:


Like seriously within the past 2 days there has been 2 times were if something hadn't have been a drone boat I could have killed them all 1 where we had a Falcon, Rapier, Arazu and 2 damage ships against 6 drone boats with Sentries and we just couldn't engage because range control ships and ECM would have done us no good, and it was early in the morning so we couldn't call anyone else out

Then there was another one where there was a Gila running sites in a WH and we only had 2 pilots on-line because it was really late and again if it was a turret/missle ship we could have easily taken it out with a Arazu and a heavy DPS ship with a light tank. But no the only way of fighting them would have been to bring more tanky and higher DPS ships.



So, you're bitching because you keep picking fights you can't win when your friends aren't there to back you up.

Well done.

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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2015-07-24 20:57:16 UTC
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
If you TD or jam those drones you should be able to severely gimp their damage output.

TD has no effect on drones. Unfortunately.



This is not correct.

Tracking disruptors are an effective counter to ships that run drones in pairs, specifically the gila or Gecko stratios.
TD with optimal range scripts certainly doesn't have any effect on sentry drones. I was testing it in the context of making gank Vexor's fail. The DPS of the Vexor itself was toast, sure, but the Gardes kept hitting the target that was 15km away although they should have had an optimal range of 1125 m with a 95% TD applied.

If it's true what you say (and I don't doubt that), then it makes EWAR on drones even more weird than it already is, as obviously even the drone type and/or script type matters. More testing I guess ... *sigh*


I don't know about optimal range scripted TD's vs sentries but TD's can definitely be used to kill drone tracking speed; using a dual TD fit against a Gecko strat or gila is a tactic that had been thrown around. I am not sure if anyone has used it succssfully, an after action report from such a case would be enlightening.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2015-07-24 21:31:12 UTC
Posting in a stealth "bawwwwwww how dare something counter my falcon" thread.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#72 - 2015-07-24 22:16:09 UTC
Boudacca Sangrere wrote:
I think the MAIN problem of the OP is the cardinal sin of EvE - Failure to Adapt. Your Arazu, etc. work great against turreted or missile ship, but not so much against a drone boat (and I think poor tactics may be to blame here too), well ADAPT!!! Fly more heavy dps, rather than a falcon... Gilas melt just like other ships. Fly (gasp) a drone boat yourself. Don't be frigging lazy and complain that the round hole is overpowered if you are trying to fit a square peg into it. But yes, it is sooo much easier to whine than to figure out how to deal with it.

B.


Yep, they had a fleet composition to beat turret/missile boat opposition. But then they ran into drone boats, or their opponents knew their capabilities and they adapted.

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Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2015-07-24 23:45:04 UTC
I'm just a nub, but I think it's ridiculous that people consider drones OP when they are the only weapon system that can be permanently rendered useless for the rest of the engagement just by shooting at them. Especially considering the ones that do respectable DPS are extremely easy to hit if you target them. I guess people just want to be able to hit orbit, lock, fire and wait for the KM.

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#74 - 2015-07-25 01:18:56 UTC
Shushhh you, OP or they will nerf missiles even more.

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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#75 - 2015-07-25 02:52:24 UTC
I wrote some stuff, then the forums ate my post, and rather than click the draft button there is a tiny x that seems to forever delete it

so the tl;dr Gurista drone boats, maybe need a nerf, but probably not much, t1 probably not, t2 mostly not, ishtar seems to keep getting nerfed so clearly CCP is looking at it.

ps: 5 man gang with 3 recons is still Sad

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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2015-07-25 02:58:48 UTC
Wait till you see my Drone Pirate marauder. Then you will see overpowered. :D
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-07-25 04:23:02 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
to be fair i lost my gila in a thunderdome match against a phantasm, it seemed like such an easy kill for him


Sorry when I say passively tanked I mean passive recharge, not buffer or booster fit because all you need to take down a booster fit is a little neuting power or if its buffer you can just dps it in a roughly equal ship.


no, all you need to do is kite it and kill the drones then kite it and kill the gila

there is a video of the fight i had in the thunderdome thread and you can see how useless the gila was against the phantasm


A Passive tanked Gila should be able to perma tank a 500 dps Phantasm.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#78 - 2015-07-25 04:25:58 UTC
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:

Here is the actual results of the maths (I have it worked out including resists); a ship doing 500dps (fully applied against an Ogre II fielded by an Ishtar against the Ogre's weakest resist which are explosive or thermal) will take 7.2 seconds to kill. Multiply that by 11 drones and you get 79.2 seconds, or 1 minute 19.2 seconds before you start to hurt the Ishtars DPS.

Bear in mind that it is highly unlikely you will be applying your maximum dps as the drone user will be managing his drones and your guns or missiles will have a hard time applying their full dps to a small target.

Against sentries your looking at 15.4 seconds in the same scenario, and so 169.4 seconds in total before hurting its dps (although it is much easier to apply your damage against sentries)


And if you were to apply damage to an armor Ishtar it would take you 95 seconds... much shorter for a Shield one for obvious reasons, damn them taking away that mid slot. Maybe you should have done the same calculation for the actual boat your aruging I shouldn't destroy first...

Look this may look like a noob character but my main is a 2006 character I know what I'm doing.


So a 2011 char is still considered a noob char?? Eve is just getting to old imo.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#79 - 2015-07-25 04:52:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Roxanne Dallas wrote:
My point is that there really unbalanced compared to all the other weapon systems.
Bull, it's the only weapons system that can be removed by shooting at it.
To be fair, you can shoot missiles before they reach you if you train up that skill nobody ever trains. But for the most part, you hit the nail on the head.

Mr Epeen Cool


What can possibly hit RLML light missles?? Smartbombs??

A skill no body ever trains that may have some hidden potential would be, Target Breakers?
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#80 - 2015-07-25 05:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
Defender missiles.

They actually work, provided you utilize them properly.
They're click intensive because of no auto-repeat, which is my only real gripe with them to be honest.
I've found that a rack of 4 HAM's loaded with heavy defenders can carry 35 in each launcher.
Reload time is much faster than a rapid system and with their flight speed they can shut down incoming missiles from a GREAT distance.

Having tested them a bit I've found that if you volley four of them at an incoming volley of four you'll shoot down between 50% to 100% of the incoming missiles. It gets a bit wiggly because of them randomly choosing their targets. You could try separating them into different groups and staggering your fire cycles to increase the yield as well.

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