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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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IDEA: Dreads - becoming tres expensive. How about a mini dread?

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2011-12-31 09:39:00 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
Didn't I read somewhere that they made Highsec POS invulnerable recently? or was that a mistake?

Anyway, I can't see it being a super idea to make Mini-Dreads; though a step up in the BS chain might be nice somewhere in the T2 line. I hate that all T2 BS are essentialy Mission munchers.


they're effectively invulnerable due to dec-shields no longer being an exploit.

Oh well, I guess that's that niche, then.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#42 - 2011-12-31 10:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkKnife
I love the idea. For one, there is almost no use for Advanced Spaceship Command except as a requirement for Capital ships, almost no ships need ASC but not capital ships.

Also, you could have them be a tier 4 BS or a new class all together, but you could have them fit 4-6 regular large guns and 1 XL turret. (mainly because I think it would look badass) This would give them some feasibility as a standard slow/tanky battleship but also keep them from being an overwhelming dps ship that is used solely for ganking. The XL turret would be near useless while moving anyway. You could enable the siege module to keep it engaged and using the single XL turret for siege engagements, and it would also make it super vulnerable to counter attacks, as they probably should be.

Think, the siege tanks from Starcraft, in theory.

Why I love this idea: It enables more small gang sov warfare, and you would no longer need an entire cap fleet just to take and hold a system, thus letting smaller gangs start claiming their own little pockets of space. More conflict over territory = more change for PVP. When everyone is in giant alliances that are blue to each other, there is very little pvp going on.

Pricing from 4-600m, so that having 3 would equal the dps/cost of a dread, but not the sheer dps or jump ability. It allows for a more gradual jump into dreads, and cap ships. So you wouldn't need to train up a dozen cap skills just to enter your first one.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-12-31 11:57:32 UTC
Just a quick observation on price and value, I didn't bother reading the whole thread so forgive me if someone already mentioned this.

It seems to me that in the game of Eve there is a trend of exponential increases, such as with the skill system, level 1 is easy to train while level 5 is very long by comparison. Same trend happens with ships which is loosely based off of mineral usage to help set prices.

Max Tier Frigate: 5-600 K; T2: 15-25 Mil
Destroyers: 1 Mil; T2: 25-35 Mil
Max Tier Cruiser: 10 Mil; T2: 120 Mil; T3 750-1250 Mil
Max Tier Battlecruiser: 55-60 Mil; T2 200-300 Mil
Max Tier Battleship: 110-120 Mil: T2 650-800 Mil (Yes I know they suck)
Dreadnaught/Carrier: 750-2000 Mil
Supercarrier: 20 Bil
Titan: 80 Bil

They all seem to have a fairly even raise in price when you look at the bigger picture, accept ofcourse when you get to the Supercaps

I wanted to say that there was a clear exponential rise in the pricing, but there seems to be a steady gain throughout save the Supercaps.

Based on this information I would say give us the mobile station monster known as the Mother ship and make it twice as much as the Titan! Make stations destructable and then make it so the Mothership jumps from system to system acting as a station and staging area until the new stations can be put up.

This would require an anchoring of a Cynopulse beacon in the target system and the station jumps systems during downtime.

Yeah my ideas are the best! Screw the OP the thread is about Motherships now!!

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Velicitia
XS Tech
#44 - 2011-12-31 13:29:09 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:

Based on this information I would say give us the mobile station monster known as the Mother ship and make it twice as much as the Titan! Make stations destructable and then make it so the Mothership jumps from system to system acting as a station and staging area until the new stations can be put up.


was with you up to here ...

you should be ashamed of this idea.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#45 - 2011-12-31 14:49:57 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Thanks. I'm not really familiar with the Dec shield system or how it works, or even how that would affect a POS. I think I've only ever been wardecced twice, and never had a highsec POS.

I assume that generally means that provided enough guys in Glass cannon's and a weak target corp, you could just walk in and camp the POS for a day or so and take it down under a Wardec?

Nope. Because the reinforcement timer for a fully stronted large POS is longer than 24 hours but less than 48 and it takes 24 hours for a war to go active once it is declared a corporation can leave the alliance it is currently in once the tower is reinforced and there will be a period of at least 12 hours where you won't be able to attack the POS but it is out of reinforced mode so the owner can easily take the POS tower down.

Basically it is practically impossible to destroy a POS that is part of an alliance because the war mechanics allow you to create time intervals where people cannot be at war with you.

It's completely unrelated to the difficulty of taking down POS towers in highsec because of the lack of capitals and needs to be dealt with seperately. To reinforce a well set up large POS that has lots of neuts and ewar can easily take a group of 30 people 5 hours, even if the tower is completely undefended, in lowsec the same job can be done by 10 people in 40 minutes because they can bring dreadnaughts.
Hadez411
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-12-31 19:10:17 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
I love the idea. For one, there is almost no use for Advanced Spaceship Command except as a requirement for Capital ships, almost no ships need ASC but not capital ships.

Also, you could have them be a tier 4 BS or a new class all together, but you could have them fit 4-6 regular large guns and 1 XL turret. (mainly because I think it would look badass) This would give them some feasibility as a standard slow/tanky battleship but also keep them from being an overwhelming dps ship that is used solely for ganking. The XL turret would be near useless while moving anyway. You could enable the siege module to keep it engaged and using the single XL turret for siege engagements, and it would also make it super vulnerable to counter attacks, as they probably should be.

Think, the siege tanks from Starcraft, in theory.

Why I love this idea: It enables more small gang sov warfare, and you would no longer need an entire cap fleet just to take and hold a system, thus letting smaller gangs start claiming their own little pockets of space. More conflict over territory = more change for PVP. When everyone is in giant alliances that are blue to each other, there is very little pvp going on.

Pricing from 4-600m, so that having 3 would equal the dps/cost of a dread, but not the sheer dps or jump ability. It allows for a more gradual jump into dreads, and cap ships. So you wouldn't need to train up a dozen cap skills just to enter your first one.


I like where you're going with this. If only everyone posting was trying to refine the idea into something even better and more feasible ;)
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#47 - 2011-12-31 19:53:55 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:

Based on this information I would say give us the mobile station monster known as the Mother ship and make it twice as much as the Titan! Make stations destructable and then make it so the Mothership jumps from system to system acting as a station and staging area until the new stations can be put up.


was with you up to here ...

you should be ashamed of this idea.


Seriously, that idea is terrible.

How many titans are there in-game? I think we've learned that price limitations are not real limitations. And even if you were to do a double price....that's garbage. Maybe 100 times the build cost and only one in production in a given region at a time and a giant beacon on the star map so everyone knows where it is.

Actually that's exactly how I think CSAA's should work now.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2011-12-31 19:53:56 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
Why I love this idea: It enables more small gang sov warfare, and you would no longer need an entire cap fleet just to take and hold a system, thus letting smaller gangs start claiming their own little pockets of space. More conflict over territory = more change for PVP. When everyone is in giant alliances that are blue to each other, there is very little pvp going on.

I'm just going to point out that SOV warfare isn't going to be small gang warfare just because there's a new ship to fly in, since there's no small objective to reach. Cap fleets aren't vital to taking and holding a system, in fact most of the SOV fights I've been in the last 2 years have been mainly decided by subcaps, and caps were mostly drawn in after the fight was over in a given system.

If you seriously want more fighting over territory, make the SOV system suck less ****.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#49 - 2012-01-01 10:53:21 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
PinkKnife wrote:
Why I love this idea: It enables more small gang sov warfare, and you would no longer need an entire cap fleet just to take and hold a system, thus letting smaller gangs start claiming their own little pockets of space. More conflict over territory = more change for PVP. When everyone is in giant alliances that are blue to each other, there is very little pvp going on.

I'm just going to point out that SOV warfare isn't going to be small gang warfare just because there's a new ship to fly in, since there's no small objective to reach. Cap fleets aren't vital to taking and holding a system, in fact most of the SOV fights I've been in the last 2 years have been mainly decided by subcaps, and caps were mostly drawn in after the fight was over in a given system.

If you seriously want more fighting over territory, make the SOV system suck less ****.



^^^^ Sov Warfare is a soul crushing grind of pornographic (not in a good way) links and Ahnold Soundboard jokes. But when someone bothers to defend a timer (final timers are good for this) the fights can be spectacular. But it's mostly decided by the Subcaps unless one side proves itself unwilling to commit Supers to the field time and time again (see the fall of the NC).

Even with the old Logoff mechanics, losing the Subcap battle once Supers were deployed meant losing some percentage of your deployed supers. With the new Logoff mechanics, losing the Subcap battle effectively means loosing all of your deployed Supers.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#50 - 2012-01-01 11:08:29 UTC
I'm going to have to go with a no on this one.

It's not that I disapprove of your idea per say, I'm all up for in-between classes of ships. But the is a certain progression to things and currently there is only 1 type of dread available. Same for Carriers, Super Carriers and Titans.

Why can't we expand those hull ranges and roles and bring in some new models at different prices to play with?

If sub-caps get to have multiple hull variations and in-between swingers, why can't the bigger toys get a makeover first?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#51 - 2012-01-01 11:49:33 UTC
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#52 - 2012-01-02 03:20:53 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
I'm going to have to go with a no on this one.

It's not that I disapprove of your idea per say, I'm all up for in-between classes of ships. But the is a certain progression to things and currently there is only 1 type of dread available. Same for Carriers, Super Carriers and Titans.

Why can't we expand those hull ranges and roles and bring in some new models at different prices to play with?

If sub-caps get to have multiple hull variations and in-between swingers, why can't the bigger toys get a makeover first?


One reason is that it doesn't help at all with highsec wars, not being able to jump into HS means no capital ships. Having a mini dread means you can theoretically use the gates, and be able to bring in some actual DPS to highsec pos bashes.

Having a mini dread means ease of access to small gangs, making them potentially more of a threat without needing the high isk levels, and high skilled pvpers to maintain/support a cap fleet for taking structures.

As is, if you want to take down a large pos in any remakably reasonable amount of time, you're going to need to commit around 3-5B or more to the field. Considering how cheap, and how fast, structures are, it is much easier to set up a system than to take one, unless of course you've got a fleet of 10 dreads just sitting around in your 1500 man corp.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#53 - 2012-01-02 06:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
I thought about this a few days ago, but never posted it.

The dreadfully-mini Dread:

Randomly based on Current Line-up for Gallente:

Tech I

Dominix
Megathron
Hyperion

Tech II

Sin - Black Ops
Kronos - Marauder

Given we already have 3 Tiers of Battleships, and the new dreadfully-mini Dread is to be a Battleship; that leaves only a Tech II version of the Tier 3 Battleship, the Hyperion. I can work with that. Greek-like myth oriented name required of course.

Tech II Hyperion Hull:

Acheron - Dreadfully-mini Dread

Structure 8,950

Armor 9,450
'EM 50
'Thermal 41.25
'Kinetic 49.875
'Explosive 10

Shield 7,680
'EM 0
'Thermal 27.5
'Kinetic 52.375
'Explosive 50

Shield Recharge Time 2800 s

Mass 114,500,000 kg
Volume 495000m3
Capacity 630 m3

Inertia 0.118
Max Velocity 98 m/s

Powergrid 18,195
CPU 720 tf

Low Slots 7
Mid Slots 4
High Slots 7

Launcher Hardpoints 0
Turret Hardpoints 6

Callibration Points 350
Upgrade Hardpoints 2

Capacitor Recharge time 1800 s
Capacitor Capacity 8,400 GJ

Max Targeting Range 90 km
Max Locked Targets 6
Magnetometric Sensor Strength 28
Signature Radius 493 m
Scan Resolution 80 mm

Drone Capacity 100 m3
Drone Bandwidth 90 Mbit/s

Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 5% large hybrid turret damage and 7.5% bonus to large hybrid turret range per level.

Dreadfully-mini Dread Bonus: 5% to large hybrid turret ROF and 10% to drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role Bonus: 97% Reduction in Siege Module Powergrid requirements

Note: Can fit Siege Modules

I would have thought that was a somewhat obvious solution. Might even be fun.
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#54 - 2012-01-02 07:59:18 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
I thought about this a few days ago, but never posted it.

*STUFF*

I would have thought that was a somewhat obvious solution. Might even be fun.


You should have gone with your initial instinct and continued to not post it.

It's a solution to a problem that does not exist.

In addition, it's a bad solution to the figmentary problem. Any cheaper dread is going to be T2 (or had better be). T2 is not insurable. That's why it hurts the wallet more to lose a Blackops than a dread.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#55 - 2012-01-02 09:22:12 UTC
*sniff* I smell fear.

I thought it was a moderately well balanced potential addition to EVE, and a marketable version of a Tech 2 Tier 3 Battleship. Honestly not sure what the problem is, or why it has to be a solution to anything aside from the title of this thread.

Really, it's just a BS that suffers from much the same vulnerabilities as it's Dread counterpart, has an applicable use in game, and doesn't provide solo-munching capability in PvP. Realistically, you'd never field it without a force equivalent to that which you'd field with your average Dread.

Speaking of which, the cost is substantially different and percentages being what they are, a fully insured Dread is likely to net a loss greater than the value of this ship.

It also doesn't come with the applicable XL turrets and is only designed to fit Battleship class weapons, which reduces any inherent over powered another design may carry. It's also more versatile than a potentially silly 1 XL Turret BS/SubCap with Siege Module and a new Tier 4 Model as mentioned previously.

Overall, it's useful, not overpowered, designed to be used as intended, and cheap enough to field while being capable of being used in any security space.

Max DPS with Siege Module active would be something like 6500 with Blasters/Ogres and maybe 5000 with Rails/Ogres. Very rough numbers there, but with standard siege penalties spread across Large turrets tracking and whatnot making it somewhat more effective DPS at shorter range than a Dread.

Probably a lot more effective against Cap ships than a Dread, but with far less EHP.
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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-01-02 09:27:38 UTC
Honestly, I'd be much more in favor of increasing the granularity of the SOV system, and decreasing the HP of said structures, than add even more ships to the mix. You know the SOV system needs work.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#57 - 2012-01-02 09:37:37 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Honestly, I'd be much more in favor of increasing the granularity of the SOV system, and decreasing the HP of said structures, than add even more ships to the mix. You know the SOV system needs work.


Can't help but agree with that; though I've limited experience in the matter.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#58 - 2012-01-02 09:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Oooo oooo!!! Question!!

What's to stop a 500 man alliance from fielding 500 of these "more versatile" Tech 3 battleships that deal damage similar to a dreadnought but are more mobile, cheaper, and possess less logistical hassles than a dreadnought? Hell... why buy/field a dreadnought at all when you have a more mobile, cheaper, and less logistically clumsy ships at the cost of only half the DPS?

How did you Veterans start?
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-01-02 09:57:03 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Honestly, I'd be much more in favor of increasing the granularity of the SOV system, and decreasing the HP of said structures, than add even more ships to the mix. You know the SOV system needs work.


We disagree on many things, but this...this is common ground. Who knows, you may come around on the whole local idea after all! There is hope for all Goons!!!

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
weebil
industrial apocolypse
#60 - 2012-01-02 09:58:48 UTC
It is an interesting idea, can I throw something else in?

Make the minidread the last t3 sub.

Have the attack sub the ability to fit 2 dread guns, the engineering one a siege mode, the defensive a double defence in seige and the electronic an immunity from ewar during seige. Dunno about the prop mod, but meh, its just an idea

This would give a noticible drop in dps from dreads so not to obscelete. It would give a ship that costs about 400m.

The purpose of the ship would be mainly high sec DPS for pos bashing, and more importantly to clear out t1 wormhole pos which are as good as invulnerable with not even BS sized ships able to enter