These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The search for Identity

Author
Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#1 - 2015-07-24 15:42:34 UTC
An excerpt from the journals of Cain Aloga,

"What is Identity, to drive men to madness in its search?

My own people where robbed of our identity centuries ago by a conquering force so sure of their own place among the stars, that the very skies of our home worlds were set ablaze. Now, after more than a century of freedom, we still struggle to rediscover our identity. The Gallante, the great ally who aided us in our rebellion, and continue to be my people’s steadfast friend, imparted onto us a part of theirs so that we may grow and prosper. For many years we lived under this borrowed identity, even as we looked to make our own. Yet it seemed so fragile in its existence that we growled, barked, and howled at every perceived threat with little regard to whom it was directed at. I myself am guilty of this. This year among the Thukker, in search of the Elders has taught me at least that much.

I am convinced that all the great struggles of this universe are struggles of Identity."


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


I find myself returning to this passage time and time again, even after a year has passed since it was written. I set off more than two years ago, to walk amongst the spirits, as it is known in my Clan and Tribe. I searched for the Elders, who had given us so much hope, given us pride in our heritage, but more importantly, who brought back the lost tribes to us, making our people whole. I wished find them and to aid in them in their efforts. I realize now that I searched for Identity, both my own, and that of my people.

My walk with the spirits is now at an end and I return to the Republic, a tribesmen determined to improve the lot of his Tribe, and of his people.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#2 - 2015-07-24 16:51:29 UTC
For as far back as I remember I rejected my identity, Even as a kid I dreamed of moving to Caille, and all that goes with that. When I finally did get out close to there I found myself basically being the "odd Matari girl in the corner." It wasn't until I returned to the Republic, became a capsuleer, spent the better part of a year trying to figure out where my place in everything was and really giving up on trying to figure it out that I finally realized who I was. Finding your identity will come, sometimes what you seek will find you when it comes down to it.

The identity of our people doesn't need to be found. Its your kin, its where we came from, the struggles that we have faced and how we have adapted and overcame many things that would have crushed a less determined people. Protecting what we have is far more important than finding tiny details that, as I said before, will come in time.

Your aren't the only one that has had these struggles you speak of, nor will you be the last. Let determination and self reliance be your ally, for they will never fail you.
Haruchai Khan
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-07-24 19:05:30 UTC
I find the challenge of identity is greatly complicated by it's mutability. We desire it to be fixed, to have a point - either of origin or destination - yet we too often allow ourselves to see 'identity' through the lens of others and their opinions. Our great tribes have ancient identity, and every clan and family and person and ancestor within those circles both contribute to, divert from, and ultimately subvert the tradition. Each us us tells the story in our own way.

Yet the tale resonates differently in the ears of each listener, and the teller adjusts the tale to each audience. The Matari are too fond of allowing outsiders to define us, to grasping foreign narratives as if they define us. We accept given identity as victim, as weak, as 'primitive' - always as a character in someone else's story, rather than crafting the story and creating it from new. There are many interests that prefer it that way.

Would that more of us took the spirit walk you speak of, kinsman. Duty is worthy, but constrictive. Reflection in silence, in exile, away from the things of man, indeed can bring enlightenment about who we are - and ultimately who we wish to be.

I look forward to listening to your story. The fire is warm and welcoming.

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Goldfinch
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-07-24 19:49:42 UTC

We hope you do not consider us facetious or cruel for saying we empathize with the loss of identity. We have long struggled with our own identity, and still we struggle with it in our sleep and in our waking hours.

Recovering one's identity can be like walking on glass. You may feel obligated by Hope to expect a conclusion.. a meaning to your suffering. But all that may come is your acceptance of the pain and the endlessness of the journey. Which direction does one head into when they are lost? How would one follow a compass when it is broken? How does one heal a dry, forgotten scar?

\J/

veiled and bound

my origin story (on eve-backstage)

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#5 - 2015-07-24 20:39:56 UTC
You know who you are. The problem is that people think on things like this for too long - you should answer all important questions within the space of seven breaths. Any longer and you become prey to second-guessing, over rationalisation and self doubt.

Who are you? You are you.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Nissui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-07-24 21:11:28 UTC
Cain Aloga wrote:
I searched for the Elders, who had given us so much hope, given us pride in our heritage, but more importantly, who brought back the lost tribes to us, making our people whole.

You found yourself, and those things of the Elders in you. Spirits bless.

Goldfinch wrote:
Which direction does one head into when they are lost? How would one follow a compass when it is broken?

First, look to the path what brought you where you stand. Then, look where you stand.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#7 - 2015-07-24 23:23:58 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
You know who you are. The problem is that people think on things like this for too long - you should answer all important questions within the space of seven breaths. Any longer and you become prey to second-guessing, over rationalisation and self doubt.

Who are you? You are you.


That... does not mean anything...
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2015-07-25 00:47:34 UTC
Many things we do not understand seem meaningless.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#9 - 2015-07-25 01:33:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mizhara Del'thul
Tuulinen has the right of it, but he starts at the end rather than the beginning of the path.

Who are you?

It's a question used among my clan's volur and shaman to remind oneself to return to one's center. To return to the present, while fully aware of both the future and the past. It's a question that is usually never meant to have an answer, as it either encompasses too much at once - every decision you've ever made, every external influence that has been wrought upon you, your very genetic make-up and the spirit you carry - or far too little - a name, a title, a task or a position in society. The question is simply meant to make you focus for a little while on your own mind and spirit, to reaffirm oneself in one's purpose and goals, or face changes or unpleasant truths about yourself.

Who am I? Born and raised in the Empire and their faith. Am I Amarr? A slave? No. Freed and crippled. Am I a burden? An intruder? A lost child off the path? No. I can go on throughout my entire life like this, counting my strengths and weaknesses, victories and failures, blood and spirit all and the question will remain unanswered in a satisfactory manner for I am all the things I have been and I am all the things I will become.

I am me, not defined by anything but myself and even that is a flawed definition until the day comes when my insight is perfect and that day will never come.

Who are you? It doesn't matter. What matters is trying to find out, because that is the only way to be true to yourself and your path in New Eden. If anyone else tries to tell you who you are, walk past them as if they are nothing but air, for they will never have your best in mind.
Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#10 - 2015-07-25 04:20:11 UTC
Haruchai Khan wrote:

Yet the tale resonates differently in the ears of each listener, and the teller adjusts the tale to each audience. The Matari are too fond of allowing outsiders to define us, to grasping foreign narratives as if they define us. We accept given identity as victim, as weak, as 'primitive' - always as a character in someone else's story, rather than crafting the story and creating it from new. There are many interests that prefer it that way.


We are in agreement Kinsmen. It is high time that the seven tribes take the responsibility of forging our own Identity for our selves. The dissolution of the parliament, the creation of the Tribal Council, and the restitution of the office of the Sanmatar are all necessary measures towards that end.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2015-07-25 09:17:41 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Many things we do not understand seem meaningless.


Please explain?

You are 'you'... Who is 'you'? What does that solve?
Haruchai Khan
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-07-25 09:21:14 UTC
Nissui wrote:


Goldfinch wrote:
Which direction does one head into when they are lost? How would one follow a compass when it is broken?

First, look to the path what brought you where you stand. Then, look where you stand.


I recall my grandfather once told me the story of the warrior and the shifting sands. The advice of the desert spirit still murmurs in my heart: "Be sure to place your feet in the right place. And then stand firm."

Lady Goldfinch, when the scar is all there is, it matters. Even broken healing is healing of a sort. Whereas I do not consider the Amarrian theology of suffering to be consistent - in that it invariably requires others to do the suffering as if there is some nobility in the reflected learning - there is merit in the deeper sense the belief is trying to convey, that of acceptance and growth. I believe that if we have suffered, our learning should be to act to ensure as many others as possible do not have to undergo that pain. In that, the path has meaning and the scar becomes healed, not forgotten.


Cain Aloga wrote:
We are in agreement Kinsmen. It is high time that the seven tribes take the responsibility of forging our own Identity for our selves. The dissolution of the parliament, the creation of the Tribal Council, and the restitution of the office of the Sanmatar are all necessary measures towards that end.


Now we begin to speak of political identity, a much more complex reflection. I agree that responsibility lies with us as a people to find ways of re-creating an identity consistent with our past and our future. I fear however that we are still children: we saw adult responsibilities such as law, treaty and compromise and fled to the security of allowing others to decide for us. Vengeance, restitution, war, are all satisfying to some part of our animal nature. Strong leaders are seductive, security through submission feels comfortable when the choice belongs to someone else and we have no franchise to take responsibility for - yet is that not a description of our previous Amarr masters too?

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#13 - 2015-07-25 14:27:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
This is a driving question behind a lot of the "Children of Naught" writings. As such, I think it's kind of a dangerous creature.

At that time, I'd been living a life in the shadow of a lot of things other people thought I was: halfblood, not really Achura; a murderer's daughter; an embarrassment; a useless burden.

I probably became a capsuleer with all that roaring in my ears. Instead of silencing those voices, though, I started adding to them.

Dead woman's ghost; preta; doppelganger.

Blame's maybe not something you just put all on yourself or all on others. I may have been pretty harsh in defining myself, but when I had the opportunity to destroy someone I saw as instrumental in making me who I was, I took it.

Murderer; kinslayer.

Demon; vengeful specter; curse.

Kumiho.

Monster.



I don't remember any of that.

That's probably for the best.

These days, I call myself a wanderer, capsuleer ... kind of a misfit, even here in PY-RE. (I make a weird mercenary.)

That's all okay.

In my heart, though, I guess I'm still a seeker. I still want to see. I still want to understand. But who I am is less important. I'm just a fragment of the world, a small one (and not even a fragment that's broken off).

If I can understand the world, I'm sure who I am will be clear. And, if not, that's probably a good sign that I don't understand properly yet.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2015-07-25 18:50:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Lyn Farel wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Many things we do not understand seem meaningless.


Please explain?

You are 'you'... Who is 'you'? What does that solve?


It's pretty much as Mizhara says, although our cultural differences stand out in the different paths we took to the same point. The essence of self is authenticity and the essence of authenticity is immediacy. You find truth in the moment, not in hours of wooly-headed navel gazing.

When I said seven breaths, I wasn't joking. The tug you feel in a different direction after that time is artifice pulling you away from your natural tendencies, from your authentic self. Sometimes this is not a bad thing - we train for a reason, after all. That said, to talk about knowing yourself is to miss the point. You already know yourself, it's encoded in every strand of DNA, in every engram of your being.

The hard part, children, is accepting yourself.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Jev North
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-07-25 19:05:36 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
The hard part, children, is accepting yourself.

When you find yourself at the bottom of a well, do you spend a week contemplating the moist darkness of your existence? Do you start planning out a new life as a blind cave-fish? Or do you try and see if you can wedge yourself up if you stretch out your arms and legs?

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#16 - 2015-07-25 19:10:38 UTC
Would you find the strength and determination to climb out if you didn't first accept you were at the bottom of a well? Accept who you are, or you can't become better than you are.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#17 - 2015-07-25 19:19:18 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Would you find the strength and determination to climb out if you didn't first accept you were at the bottom of a well? Accept who you are, or you can't become better than you are.


How strange to be so in accord with someone I've always thought of as an intractable enemy.

She's right Jev - by all means stretch and see if you can reach, but if the person you are is too damn short to reach a handhold then you'd better either start looking for a wedge or a box unless you can work out how to grow taller.

Accepting who we are doesn't mean not then going on to change who we are - but it should be pointed out that true change is as hard as growing taller.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#18 - 2015-07-25 19:50:04 UTC
I have always said we have more in common than irreconcilable differences. There is a reason I have made it a point to never put myself against State forces or interests if I can help it. I am an enemy of the Empire, not you.

Such a pity so many State pilots find it necessary to pit themselves against us. It is... disappointing, having to claim the lives of the crews of State aligned vessels when it is not even their war.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#19 - 2015-07-26 00:29:45 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
I have always said we have more in common than irreconcilable differences. There is a reason I have made it a point to never put myself against State forces or interests if I can help it. I am an enemy of the Empire, not you.

Such a pity so many State pilots find it necessary to pit themselves against us. It is... disappointing, having to claim the lives of the crews of State aligned vessels when it is not even their war.


I admire the Republic - especially now that it is seeking to develop as itself again and not as an offshoot of the Federation. I know exactly what you mean about the disappointment you describe.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2015-07-26 10:03:15 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Many things we do not understand seem meaningless.


Please explain?

You are 'you'... Who is 'you'? What does that solve?


It's pretty much as Mizhara says, although our cultural differences stand out in the different paths we took to the same point. The essence of self is authenticity and the essence of authenticity is immediacy. You find truth in the moment, not in hours of wooly-headed navel gazing.

When I said seven breaths, I wasn't joking. The tug you feel in a different direction after that time is artifice pulling you away from your natural tendencies, from your authentic self. Sometimes this is not a bad thing - we train for a reason, after all. That said, to talk about knowing yourself is to miss the point. You already know yourself, it's encoded in every strand of DNA, in every engram of your being.

The hard part, children, is accepting yourself.


I do not find any truth in the moment.

I do not know myself, and it does not feel encoded in every strand of DNA... How could it be anyway? Does identity only relies on individual phenotype?

Respectfully, that sounds exactly what people that never had to deal with that issue usually tell me... I hardly think that life and identity is anything comparable to being left at the bottom of a well. It is easy enough to understand that you either have the choice to climb, or stay at the bottom.

I do not feel that identity is binary like that. And if it is, then I am only able to perceive the zero, and not the one.