Crime & Punishment

Like triple the cost, but half and a third of the cost of Brutixes and Taloses.
Yet you don't debate the idea that smaller and more plentiful ships regularly take out much more expensive larger ships every day in eve.


AG already have a much smaller, cheaper and easier way to oppose ganking. I'll say this again:
The logistics of ganking are more easily stopped than the logistics of hauling. Macharials which are 100% required to actually gank freighters are gankable by two or three people in taloses, or six people in catalysts reliably. Ganking requires a minimum ceiling of twenty people including DPS, bumpers and scouts, whereas antiganking counters twenty DPS in catalysts with half a dozen proper ships.
I like balance, and I like that anti-ganking opposes us, it makes it fun. But saying that they are unable to fight us because of game mechanics instead of their incompetence is misleading and flat out wrong. I think the system is balanced because because of the following facts:
1) AG, if competent, can stop CODE. fleets with a third of the numbers.
2) AG, if competent, can deny 100% of CODE. loot, bringing incoming revenue to zero and causing all ships to be lost with no rewards
3) Haulers, if competent, can avoid 99% of ganks by having a webbing alt
4) Haulers, if competent, can also avoid 90% of ganks by properly tanking and hauling with their ship, and scouting systems before hand to see if gankers are in local.
5) Haulers' decisions directly support ganking through their bad decisions.
6) Anti-ganking isn't 'profitable' because there is no market need for it. Ship spinning shouldn't be profitable just because I put a lot of effort into ship spinning.


You still don't know where miniluv gets it's money I see. Ask Warr Akini about his 12 ratting carriers in Deklein please. Ask him how he funds miniluv by himself.



Hard knocks stopped 15 taloses from killing their fully expanded freighter in jita a couple days ago, they had six support ships total. The proof is in front of you, you just refuse to do the math yourself, and I'm not going to help antiganking to prove someone wrong who can't take five minutes out of his day to hit up EFT and do some math.


Warr Akini pays for everything in miniluv, CODE. is funded by The New Order. On top of what we get from loot, both organizations get money from the outside to remain solvent. These are facts of the matter, and I'm embarrassed that you do not know either of these. How can someone in miniluv not know the sugar daddy Warr Akini spends hours every day funding the majority of freighter killing in highsec.


>There are loads of people doing it. Why are there few FCs? Because people don't want to use what's in their head, they just want to F1 for profit and tears.
People don't want to use what's in their head because it's not worth it. I don't understand why you can't look at simple math of the situation. If it WAS WORTH IT AND AS EASY AS YOU SAY AND AS PROFITABLE, you would have lots of people flocking to make money here.


>Yeah, because bulkheaded freighters never die, right? Especially if they are -kill removed- [/url].[/quote]
But that's not a case of everyone hauling properly, that's a case of one guy flying properly. If we had to fight that every single time we wouldn't have enough people to do it consistently. Most fleets start off with ten guys killing orcas and it builds up to freighter fleets, it never starts with thirty man fleets, it only gets there because of the hype and kills coming in.

Have no fear, Veers will return when the New Order needs him again!

I'm not saying that. I'm saying their mechanics suck SO MUCH that any reasonably competent person won't do it. You are yet to prove that wrong, primarily because you can't. If they manage to even land on the right target there's nothing they can do, even if they are competent. It amuses me that you claim they are unable to do anything one minute then the next are like "oh it only takes like 1 person to stop millions of gankers".

Appraently no, we can't, because rather than go after the argument's you're instead misrepresenting, attacking and attempting to discredit me, while you're little troll buddies throw around their usual attacks.

The mechanics are more than viable enough to stop ganking. They are unable to do it because they are bad. If they were good like hard knocks, they could stop out ganks with a third of the numbers, exactly like what happened a few days ago. It has happened when we were at our best and these hardknocks guys actually knew what they were doing and stopped us, ask any Miniluv FC who was there for the attempted gank on an HK freighter.

Let's look at this example. What if shuttles regularly carried 5 bil + and died a lot and it was crazy profitable, should CCP then nerf shuttle ganking or buff shuttles? Should a group's consistent ignorance and refusal to get better or to properly play force CCP to balance the game for their ignorance or stupidity?


The only discredit that has been shown has been your facts proven incorrect and mine shown correct. I don't tell people how to respond to your post, they're obviously responding to the arguments you've made, and their belief that they can't actually believe someone continually misreads or refuses to read things.

to be fair one group wasn't code. Not sure who they were. I bank on removing 2400dps for 20-25 seconds worth of gank. they bring more then that extra I guess a freighter will pop. The code gank save I managed to fleet the freighter to give it boosts too

Good people can stop it, but they don't because they know they can't?

what

Good people can stop it, but they don't because they are smart enough that they aren't going to devote their life to attempting to grief CODE. They have no interest in the well being of a stranger, and why should they? Why should showing up and AFK repping a stranger be rewarding? What is this entitlement that Anti-Ganking should have an ISK reward? The reward is trying to save the freighter and hurt CODE., there is nothing wrong or small about this reward obviously to the anti-ganker because they keep coming back for more.


There are so few of them in ships that matter, just because a guy brings a raven to watch doesn't mean he is actively contributing.

Let me tell you that the shuttle thing actually happens, and it was such a problem that people =stopped hauling expensive stuff= in shuttles. It's a self correcting problem. You still have the occasional idiot, but it stopped. When people don't stop when people gank them en masse, that means ganking isn't a big enough problem for them as a group to change their actions. It's sort of like capitalism, the dumb die off and the smart and competent ones remain, and reap the rewards.

not that I'm any activist for capitalism, I know nothing about politics, but the profits balance out with the rewards in hauling through natural selection, good people stay and bad people get ganked and give up. those with proper escorts survive and those without them die.

My God, this thread.

Will just drop few thoughts - while ganking should stay in game, some of the mechanics desperately need reworking, many points made by Serendipity were right on spot regarding that. Also there are a lot of missed opportunities regarding couter-criminal gameplay in hisec - linking criminal acts to bounties and making bounty hunting an actual thing could be interesting, maybe even introducing some form of player police faction (kill criminals, earn a bit of concord lp related to reduced kill value e.g.). Just some ideas.

OP is obviously wrong on quite a few of his points (hint - making generalizations about any group in game is generally bad, especially when calling them RL bullies) however I do think that some of the things CODE does are bordering (and crossing the border) of pathological behaviour. While this is indeed a game and as in any game you have to learn to suck up your loss, keeping some basic level of civilised relationship towards other players should be a no-brainer. While 'pushing the boundaries' of what others will do for their virtual property (namely, bonus room sort of stuff) might be considered edgy gameplay by some, I find that kind of stuff both sickening and worrying. Needles to say, erotica is still an active participant on code forums/pages.

However, those things aside - the worst thing is lack of openness from the vocal ganking members to what's being said. I understand that some changes to ganking would reduce its profitability / draw, but there really is no logic in the fact that you can reship once you've committed criminal acts in hisec, freely move through stargates etc. I won't even start on the ability to loot safely (for all practical purposes) using dst fleet hangars. Oh and that 'hisec nerfs' graphic is hillarious since it only illustrates the reduction in very easy shenanigans one could pull thanks to poorly designed/explained game mechanics and difference between experience folks get by participating in combat pvp and other aspects of game (pve, industry etc).

Are you against hyperdunking as a gameplay option even though you know how easily it is stopped?

What exact nerfs would you propose to highsec ganking?

Do you agree that shooting wrecks is currently unbalanced? It has no entry requirements and has no counter play if done correctly.

I don't like the fleet hangar mechanic, but fixing it would change a lot of other parts of the game that rely on it. Maybe not allowing frigates, rookie ships and shuttles to move loot into fleet hangars would be a decent compromise.

I agree that it would be cool to have some sort of criminal hunting mechanic, but I cannot think of one that would be balanced and not be abused by people who have -10.0 alts. Even if we did something like Factional Warfare where 20% of the value of the ship is paid out in CONCORD LP, you'd still have at least a ganker smartbomb his own fleet to get the profits before they go and gank.

Maybe if a target is GCC, and his ship is killed, 10-20% of the value of the ship (whatever is the FW standard) is paid out to all 0.0+ non GCC participants on the kill?

Carebear speak.

They will say anything, no matter how hypocritical or self contradictory, to justify their desire to Trammelize this game.

Better to lose a retriever and learn early than lose a charon and lose a lot more.

I thrasher gank new players all the time. I send them a welcome evemail, send them ISK, and tell them what happened, and how they're never safe. This is a good introduction to EVE.