Crime & Punishment

actually those pilots were stingy so nothing...
actually now that you mention it why did i bother?

Ah I remember now it was revenge. Hmm. Perhaps I need to do up a mail and a video even and send it to future recipients of my good will. Could net a profit

I literally said best case scenario, where we get full drops, where we have no antiganking shooting wrecks, and we have big freighters coming through at an above average rate. Most of the time, we get below what the cost of ships are, and even if we did come out ahead, splitting it up amongst so many people nets almost nothing. Also it considers no one ganks our macharials or scanning alts, no one fails a gank, etc. Sorry for your selective reading.



It's as reasonable as any other situation in eve online.


Sorry, I'm not going to play the game for my enemies because they suck. If they were good, they could stop us, which means that the system is working as intended. You just pointed out the reason why AG suck, because they can't actually become a group. They have no organization, skill, or competency. If they were good, they could stop us. If the 20 people the regularly had to watch us kill freighters were in the right ships, we would never get a kill.


If only you actually listened to the facts about the matter, how is ganking even broken? Give me a concise bullet points list and I will refute them fully. Thank you.


No one is suggesting any methods of risk, in fact there is already a ton of risk in the game already, just because some people can't be arsed to do it because it's not a big enough issue TO be arsed with it is proof that ganking isn't as big and game breaking as you think. Why do you think only two groups gank more than once in a blue moon?
How is using a 1.5 billion mach that has a third of the EHP of a max anti-tanked freighter not a risk? we've had machs get ganked before, but people don't do it. It's easier, more isk positive/killboard green than regular empty freighters. How is this not a risk?


>As for entitlement, you're acting just as entitled by believing that CCP should hold the status quo of you earning 5 times more than a miner for less assets on the line. You feel you're entitled to keep your unbalanced mechanics. I tire of hearing the "waah, entitlement" argument at every turn.

How many times do I have to say it, there is no consistent profit for standard freighter fleets. At best you make less than an incursion runner, at an average you're at a substantial loss and at worst you get nothing. I think you need to know what entitlement means, you keep saying it over and over. AG and victims keep clamoring for the nerfing of ganking, and we simply state how it actually is, repeatedly. Who says you should be able to haul in highsec without risk? No one. Who says that suicide ganking, bumping, and freighter killing is supposed to be a risk in highsec? CCP multiple times.

Not to mention the victims hold 100% of the responsibility. I never forced them to undock, or jump into uedama, or to not scout the system, or to not use a webber, or to not antitank his ship, or to be afk, or to log off, or to put 20 billion into his freighter, or to not understand game mechanics, or to not learn from his mistakes and continue to use freighters. Same thing for antiganking, how is it my job to make sure that they do their best to protect freighters?

So globby that fit I linked would 2 **** up your average 8-12 man ganking fleet? How much does a ganking fleet cost anyways ballpark?

Sure... you're so hard done by...

I disagree. In most other situations you need ships with at least a little value or some skilled pilots. Scaling up with F1 monkeys in super cheap ships is too much.

Lol, you wildly missed the point here. AGs are bad because the mechanics suck. They aren't rewarding, they are tough to do and need a higher outlay. Players with organisational skill and competency have enough sense to know not to bother. Take yourself, I'm sure you're very competent. You wouldn't be an AG because it's far more rewarding and requires less effort to be a ganker.


- Too much reward
- Not enough risk
- Not enough individual player skill required

I know you'll refute them all, but it won't make you any more right. You're simply going to state your opinion opposes mine, which we know. We have two opposing opinions, that's all.

So out of a gank fleet, one guy risks one significant ship, and that only to ganking if he doesn't move away from the incompetent AGs trying to kill him. Seriously mate, nothing you say is going to change my view that you are as big a carebear as a career NPC missioner.

And mainly two groups do it because those big groups have a very public interest in it. People who want to do it gravitate towards it. Why does pretty much one group do a staged permawar in highsec?

>How many times do I have to say it, there is no consistent profit for standard freighter fleets. At best you make less than an incursion runner, at an average you're at a substantial loss and at worst you get nothing. I think you need to know what entitlement means, you keep saying it over and over. AG and victims keep clamoring for the nerfing of ganking, and we simply state how it actually is, repeatedly. Who says you should be able to haul in highsec without risk? No one. Who says that suicide ganking, bumping, and freighter killing is supposed to be a risk in highsec? CCP multiple times.

I know what entitlement means, it;s when a play constantly thinks he is entitled to something for :reasons: like how you feel you are entitled to your easy carebear mechanic with zero balance passes because "It's all someone else's fault". And the answer is many man many more times. Once I see signs of financial struggle, maybe I'll believe it, but still going after empty freighters for the lols really doesn't suggest that's true.

And I'm not suggesting that ganking isn't risk to hauler and I'm not suggesting it should go. What I'm suggesting is that it should either take commitment, effort, skill and risk or reward significantly less on average.

>Not to mention the victims hold 100% of the responsibility.

A few more times, because he's blatantly lying about that part.





But for all his misapplied ranting about opportunity cost, he can't figure out that sitting around waiting for somebody worth killing is a huge opportunity cost.

Whereas PvE has none, ever. You can do missions and especially incursions literally all day, I used to plex several accounts in one weekend a month of flying a Guardian.

Look friends, this Lucas guy is mad because someone used Isbotter to gank and then CCP immediately revised their stance on Input multiplexing and banned his Isbotter mining fleet in the process.

If you don't believe me, go to the Isbotter thread and read how butthurt he was about the whole Isbotter change. Of course he will deny everything, he is actually a ganker ... bla bla... cool story

He probably does not even play anymore, he just tries to get his revenge by pressing for a gank nerf, the profession who ended his cheating. As you may have noticed, reason and logic is not something he will use, he is in a state of blind hate and no amount of discussion will change that.

I suggest you just ignore him and let him rage on his own. There is nothing to be gained by giving him any attention.

Last I checked, gank cats were significantly cheaper that harpy fleet ships.

To an extent they do, it's called balance. You want your activity to be super rewarding and easy, while you want AGs to have a tough time with no reward so they don't oppose you. Carebear.

No you haven't, you've literally just said it. And according to miniluv they are self-funded. The proof is in your actions, if you weren't making any isk, you'd not be doing lol ganks on empty ships.

And ye, they are opinions. That's what I stated. I have opinions, you have opinions, they differ.

Rofl, seriously?
Prove the countering mechanics are there then. Start up an AG group if it's so damn easy and worthwhile to be an anti-ganker. You won't though because you know it sucks. They are a running joke in gank fleets because they have no method of making any real impact.

It doesn't, you simply can't read. When I see financial struggle, that's when I'll believe gankers are out of pocket. All the time I'm seeing events and lol ganks, there's obviously plenty of spare profit going. Obvioulsy you're going to say that it's not profitable because you want to hide the fact that you're carebearing like crazy.

>If it was as brainless, profitable, and skilless as you say, why aren't there that many people doing it? Why doesn't it happen every day? Why is there only one FC in CODE/miniluv combined that FCs over 80% of freighter kills? Why is it mostly only one person?

There are loads of people doing it. Why are there few FCs? Because people don't want to use what's in their head, they just want to F1 for profit and tears.

>We do it for a reason. The reason is a belief that the game is fundamentally better with us doin what we're doing.
Lol, you do it for isk because you're a carebear. If you are legitimately doing it out of some weird belief that the game requires you to do it then I sincerely pity you. This is a game friend.

>I'll say again, if everyone hauled fully bulkheaded and with one bil or less in highsec, there would be no ganking in highsec.
Yeah, because bulkheaded freighters never die, right? Especially if they are nearly empty.

John

Look, all I wanted to say was: If there was some kind of "Veers memorial recognition award for incoherent EVE-O Forum minutes", I would clearly nominate Lucas.

See you on the Highsec battlefields <3

He's fine I am sure. He is just progressing along the road to burn-out. Players like him who play Eve as a "traditional" MMO stay the least time with the game as we heard at Fanfest (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1019227/datascience_presentation/index.html#/5/7).

He's about 18 months into his statistically expected lifespan of about 24 months so he is probably just wrestling with the meaning of his existence in Eve and finding less reasons to log in or visit the forums. He might make a re-appearance for the Drifter Incursions after the summer (depending how PvP-free they are), but in the end, the lack of a greater purpose and the repetitive nature of the PvE will finally grind him down and he will move on to another game by the end of the year.

I wish him well though. I hope he finds happiness wherever he ends up. He is/was a forum troll, but at least a self-aware one who forced some interesting discussion.