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Warfare & Tactics

 
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A thought about Boosters:

Author
El Taron
Doomheim
#161 - 2015-07-20 16:36:53 UTC
Very, I'm gaining a massive advantage ingame ....
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#162 - 2015-07-20 16:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
El Twokills Notanalt wrote:
Haha you can't help yourself can you, if you're as clever as you seem to be trying to convince everybody you are, you would realise this is a forum alt.


Why hide your game identity then ask people to take you seriously?
El Taron
Doomheim
#163 - 2015-07-20 16:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: El Taron
What's my identity got to do with what I'm saying, either my points are valid or they're not. I can't even believe we're having this conversation considering how many people use alts on the forums. Whether I'm Garmon, Shadoo or a 1 day old noob, if the point is valid the point is valid.

Why should anybody who has so little confidence in what they're saying they feel the need to try and attack the credability of everybody with a different opinion be taken seriously either?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#164 - 2015-07-20 16:52:19 UTC
Points can be valid but still ill informed. I would suggest yours are the latter. Therefor your experience and perspective is actually important.
El Taron
Doomheim
#165 - 2015-07-20 16:53:58 UTC
Well let's leave it it at I've got considerably more experience than your posting character, if you really want to go down that route.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#166 - 2015-07-20 16:59:07 UTC
Dont see any evidence of that.
El Taron
Doomheim
#167 - 2015-07-20 16:59:55 UTC
That's fine, since it isn't important it doesn't matter.
HiSecAlt
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2015-07-20 19:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: HiSecAlt
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Dont see any evidence of that.


And I don't see any evidence that your "perceptions are very likely" either, since you are contradicting yourself from one sentence to another.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#169 - 2015-07-20 21:48:24 UTC
HiSecAlt wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Dont see any evidence of that.


And I don't see any evidence that your "perceptions are very likely" either, since you are contradicting yourself from one sentence to another.


For example?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#170 - 2015-07-21 14:49:33 UTC
Let me lay this out for you El Taron. You are complaining about people using OGBs and being risk adverse, yet by using a forum alt you are also being risk adverse. And before you ask, or make some remark about me doing the same; this is my main.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#171 - 2015-07-22 16:41:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Estella Osoka wrote:
Let me lay this out for you El Taron. You are complaining about people using OGBs and being risk adverse, yet by using a forum alt you are also being risk adverse. And before you ask, or make some remark about me doing the same; this is my main.


So just for clarification, you have run out of actual points/arguments to make for your case in keeping the system as it is and have defaulted to attacking the poster and/or his credibility as a last resort, right?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#172 - 2015-07-22 17:38:46 UTC
I dont think anyone in this thread has argued for keeping the system as it is. Not a single person afaik.

You seem to have the reading comprehension of a cabbage.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2015-07-22 19:01:55 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Because getting beaten by 1 person with 2 accounts is totally different to getting beaten by 2 people with 1 account.

CCP have conducted a horrible bait and switch, getting people to play their game based on endless stories of fairness, kindness, honesty and balance then dropping mechanics like this on us.

Its just so unfair, UNFAIR!?!?!, IN MY EVE?!?!?!

IF YOU WANT TO MOVE YOUR DAMN SUPERCAP SOMEWHERE TO HYPERDUNK SOME GUY THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE TO HAVE A FRIEND WITH A 'CYNO MAIN'.


You're still confusing the validity of ingame choices and tactics, including engaging in deceit and skullduggery, with a meta of "I am willing to spend more money on the game ergo I win."

I don't care about you using a cyno alt to move your cap. There's really no way to get around some necessity of alts to do certain things in the game.

But for me as a relatively new player to be told my choices, skill and knowledge ingame don't matter unless I participate in the arms race of alts; that's pretty ******. How many people do you think would not even pick up a 14 day trial if you told them they have to have minimum of two accounts to compete IN 1v1'S?


FTFY.

I think all newish players already do and always have realised that they will struggle against a much older player on a 1v1 level.

Hopefully people join eve for the larger fights where even an atron can make a difference as per recent CCP marketing.


Of course newish players will struggle against older but they can attain near-parity as far as small ship SP goes in 6 months or so. And the SP system while different from other MMOs' progression schemes fits into people's general expectations of how an MMORPG works. Multiboxing a second/third account solely to provide a trump card in small scale engagements is something totally different and pretty alien to most people that are new to EVE because as far as I know it isn't permitted anywhere else.

My fundamental argument is that a proliferation of risk-averse multiboxing "solo" pvp'ers in lowsec inevitably leads to fewer small scale encounters. And it's those 1v1 and small scale fights that bring NEW players to lowsec.

This attitude of that some "elite pvp'ers" have that EVE is about cheating however you can to explode someone else's spaceship, is quite stupid when taken to extremes. It works exactly once per player on those who understand what's happening. You rely on the new and the dumb for your content. When the day comes that you can't find someone willing to undock and chase your 10k m/s garmur around, will you unsub? Or just retire to the 4-4 undock with an insta-loki?
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#174 - 2015-07-22 19:06:06 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Of course newish players will struggle against older


Then lets just abolish skillpoints?
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2015-07-22 21:26:34 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Of course newish players will struggle against older


Let's not create/incentivize additional barriers of entry based on how much money a player is willing to invest in multiboxing


Makes alot more sense now, I think you'll find.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#176 - 2015-07-22 22:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Of course newish players will struggle against older


Let's not create/incentivize additional barriers of entry based on how much money a player is willing to invest in multiboxing

I abuse pigs.


Why? because you arbitrarily decided which barriers are ok and which arnt?

EVE is marketed as a multiplayer game. Most new players dont join and expect to be able to compete alone. Saddo purists who think that 'solo' is the holy grail do more to damage new players by giving them the impression that the game is unbalanced. When in reality, its just unfair, until you make it unfair in your favor.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#177 - 2015-07-23 14:20:45 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Of course newish players will struggle against older


Let's not create/incentivize additional barriers of entry based on how much money a player is willing to invest in multiboxing

I abuse pigs.


Why? because you arbitrarily decided which barriers are ok and which arnt?

EVE is marketed as a multiplayer game. Most new players dont join and expect to be able to compete alone. Saddo purists who think that 'solo' is the holy grail do more to damage new players by giving them the impression that the game is unbalanced. When in reality, its just unfair, until you make it unfair in your favor.


Which is fine up until the point where the game becomes pay to win. Which having a second account does in fact perform the pay to win function rather well.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2015-07-23 14:58:55 UTC
Legatus1982 wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Of course newish players will struggle against older


Let's not create/incentivize additional barriers of entry based on how much money a player is willing to invest in multiboxing

I abuse pigs.


Why? because you arbitrarily decided which barriers are ok and which arnt?

EVE is marketed as a multiplayer game. Most new players dont join and expect to be able to compete alone. Saddo purists who think that 'solo' is the holy grail do more to damage new players by giving them the impression that the game is unbalanced. When in reality, its just unfair, until you make it unfair in your favor.


Which is fine up until the point where the game becomes pay to win. Which having a second account does in fact perform the pay to win function rather well.



Multiple accounts is not pay to win. Pay to win implies paying real life money to make your in-game character more powerful than otherwise possible. It puts the play to win player on a different playing field. Nothing in Eve does that today. Buying ISK with PLEX and multiple accounts does give a player an advantage in that they have a built in wingman and don't have to grind isk as much. However, that advantage is easily overcome by anybody in the game who puts forward the effort to make friends or put in the time to grind isk.

There is a limit to how many accounts a multiboxer can handle (w/o something like isboxer). If I am running two accounts vs your 1, then I have the advantage. If you have 2 people vs my 2 accounts, then you have the advantage since you can fly better since my attention is split between 2 ships.

IMHO, the only problem with boosters is that people are using them as a hidden advantage to claim they are "better" when they crush your ship "solo" with the hidden fact that they are using drugs, have high grade implants, and a booster. With two relatively simple fixes, we probably solve 90% of the problem links impose at the solo/micro gang level.

1. Putting the booster on a killmail as doing 0 damage against anybody that is shot by a fleet member who has active links on them.
2. Transfer flags from activating a link module, just as is done for remote repair modules (ie reuse the same code applied to remote reps for links and assume the links "hit" every player in the fleet below them)

Elite "solo" pvpers will have their killboards shattered and links will be forced into safe spots where certain individuals enjoy probing and murdering boosters. I am probably the prime candidate for it. I hated links because I was tired of losing "solo" fights to people with links. So, I got my own links with the intention of not using them unless the other person had links or I was fighting outnumbered. Instead, I "cheated". I tried to not use them, but I tend to turn them on if I am losing the fight. This is the same problem I ran into when I started dual boxing characters. My intention was to have two characters looking for fights, but I ended up warping the second character into fights I was losing. This wasn't as bad for the losing party, because at least they knew they lost because they fought outnumbered. They can even be happy about it, because they knew they were winning and the other side had to call in "the blob". The same thing will happen if links go on the killmail.

.

Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#179 - 2015-07-23 15:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Legatus1982
Eve online is the only game I can think of where people can openly multi box and literally purchase in game currency with usd and it isn't considered pay to win. I don't even know how that is considered logical.
Pay to win doesn't mean I pay to get an advantage nobody else can get. It means I can win through multiple means, and paying is one of those ways.

The fleet bonuses and off grid boosts are the biggest offenders, but they aren't the only ones.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#180 - 2015-07-23 16:06:12 UTC
In game currency cannot be bought with real life cash.

It seems you misunderstand every term you use.