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State of Minmatar Ships
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Maxim Hibra
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2015-06-26 22:30:37 UTC
Bishop Hauser wrote:
Hi there!

I started playing last year, but only for a few month. I restarted my Eve career a few weeks ago and I still couldn't figure out what ships I should skill further down the road. Last year I started with Minmatar ships and a few Caldari ship skills. But at the moment I get a feeling, that for any action I want to perform in Eve, there is a better ship from the other three factions.
For example:
Missioning: Take a Caldari Ship!
Wormhole: Take a Tengu or Legion.
Small Scale Gangs: Take a Catalyst
Exploration: Take the Buzzard and not the Cheetah etc...

While this may be a little exaggerated, it pretty much shows the impression a new player like me may get after reading guides or forum commentaries.

What I'd like to know is, if the Minmatar ships got nerfed somehow in the last year? Or weather it is wrong to assume that Minmatar ships are mostly inferior to ships from other factions. (at least I didn't get that feeling last year)

Furthermore I am thinking about skilling the Loki. I already got Minmatar cruiser to V and really like the idea of flying a T3 ship, because of its diversity. But all I see in guides etc. is the advice to skill a Tengu or a Legion.
They seem to be a far better choice than the Loki in nearly any activity! Some may say, that the Loki is a little bit better in PvP. Although there seems to be a ship for any PvP role which is at least as potent as the Loki, but a lot cheaper.

Do I just get it all wrong? Or should I, for example, really skill for the Tengu?

TL:DR: Loki seems inferior in nearly every possible Eve activity, as do most Minmatar ships in comparison to the other factions. Do I just get it wrong? Should I skill the Loki or the Tengu (I already got Matar cruiser V and wanted to skill the Loki till I read some guides or commentary).


I find the Loki to be very good for both PvE and PvP, albeit only for a specific role. Namely using bonused webs to makes targets easier to blap. However, in that role it's very helpful running capital escalations in wormholes or supporting blap dreads in general. Sure, that might be a very narrow niche, but it's not like Legion has it any better, being solely useful for neuting. Proteus and Tengu are the only actually versatilte t3s.
Bishop Hauser
Projekt 7
#22 - 2015-06-29 09:10:21 UTC
Hi there,

well thank you guys for the fruitful discussion! You are helping me a lot to get a better overview and get back into the game!

ShahFluffers wrote:

ACs were the dominant weapon system for many years. So when CCP took a look at other weapon systems they decided to buff them and not ACs (infact, they nerfed ACs a bit).
The result is that hybrids, particularly blasters, are now the final word in close range brawling.
However, ACs can be used to great effect when "scram-kiting" (look it up).
And Artillery is the same as it always has been... terrible tracking... bad dps... supreme alpha.

As for missiles... in small gangs and kiting tactics, missiles are quite popular because they don't have to deal with tracking and they have rather long ranges.


Well especially thanks to you Sir! Nice post there and it helps me a lot. I hope i don't bother you to ask even further questions! Lol

Do you have a reference of the patch details? I'd like to read them. Not that I don't believe you! Blink But I'd like to read about the details! What exactly did they do to the cannons etc.

In terms of PvP (and a lack a lot of experience in this matter!) is the alpha really such a huge thing?

ShahFluffers wrote:

Bishop Hauser wrote:
what is this current situation? So am I not wrong? It seems that Minmatar ships may have some niche usefulness in pvp, but that's it?

Not wrong. But not right either. Every ship now has a niche and usefulness. Minmatar ships just got the relatively shorter stick compared to some others. This does not mean they are "not viable"... merely that they aren't "kings" in most classes anymore.

The simple fact of the matter is that the lineup of ships being used in today's meta is FAR more diverse*** than in the age when Minmatar ships were known as "Winmatar."

***Yes, I said it. More diverse. Even with the many complaints about Ishtars, T3Ds, and lack of battleship viability/flexibility... the meta is still more diverse that it was 2 years ago.


Okay, this is a really nice and seemingly objective description of the current state. More diversity sounds good! The shorter stick doesn't of course. But in a game like this it doesn't matter that much and maybe there is a rebalance incoming in the next months or so...

Maxim Hibra wrote:

I find the Loki to be very good for both PvE and PvP, albeit only for a specific role. Namely using bonused webs to makes targets easier to blap. However, in that role it's very helpful running capital escalations in wormholes or supporting blap dreads in general. Sure, that might be a very narrow niche, but it's not like Legion has it any better, being solely useful for neuting. Proteus and Tengu are the only actually versatilte t3s.


What is a blap? :D

Well after reading all this stuff it seems, that I am going to skill towards the Tengu. I really like the idea of the diversity and it seems, that the Tengu does it better than the Loki.
Anyways I like the discussion and I really like to hear other opinions about the state of Minmatar ships or ship diversity in general.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-06-29 11:25:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Bishop Hauser wrote:
Well especially thanks to you Sir! Nice post there and it helps me a lot. I hope i don't bother you to ask even further questions! Lol

Do you have a reference of the patch details? I'd like to read them. Not that I don't believe you! Blink But I'd like to read about the details! What exactly did they do to the cannons etc.

In terms of PvP (and a lack a lot of experience in this matter!) is the alpha really such a huge thing?


It wasnt particually one thing, they nerfed tracking enhancers that hit projectiles pretty hard, buffed other weapon systems, and have been messing with the ships themselfes for a long while now.

In larger fleets Alpha is king, if you get enough of it logi dont have enough time to land reps, and so effectivly become useless. Otherwise you have to have enough dps to overwhelm the reps... which is harder and potentially takes more time.
HOWEVER you have to hit that "critical mass" of alpha dmg or the reps will land and you'll have an even harder time (high alpha weapons generally have a lower overall dps output)

Bishop Hauser wrote:
What is a blap? :D

Well after reading all this stuff it seems, that I am going to skill towards the Tengu. I really like the idea of the diversity and it seems, that the Tengu does it better than the Loki.
Anyways I like the discussion and I really like to hear other opinions about the state of Minmatar ships or ship diversity in general.


Blap dreds are dps monsters that can be configured to hit sub-cap ships. In WH's (where a hot drop isn't an option) they are highly favoured.

Tengu is getting some love via proxy to the new missile modules... however they have been nerfed recently and i wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt happen again sooner rather than later (still too good at too many things)

No Worries
Bloody James
Sign in Blood
S0ns Of Anarchy
#24 - 2015-07-20 17:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloody James
I play in FW so my experience is based on what I see there.

At the moment, comet is a superb ship. You can easily notice that because everyone and their mom is flying them. It feels like the new rifter.

I always been a fan of minmatar and I've tried and tried to make them work. For instance, dual web+art firetail in no way can win a well pilot comet with rails. I seriously mean it, 280mm art is pretty crappy.

It's a slow system, misses hell a lot even with dual webs up. Besides, comet has a lot more tank and their shots are always landing on the spot even at 1.5k km which is crazy.

When it comes to blaster versus ac, it's basically the same situation. Only if you switch to barrage and do crappy dps at 9km can you dodge a few bullets. If you are at 7 km nearly to 8km blasters are still hitting you with the support of drones.

I wouldn't exactly say comet is op but it's very strong and also ac and art for frigates are in crappy shape. I really can't see any advantage on using artillary at the moment. When it comes to ac basically you have a slight better fall off range compared to blasters and that's pretty much all.


Minmatar on the other hands, always has been a race that you need to train multiple weapons so you can work effectively with them. Furthermore, their ac ships tend to be harder to fly, since you need to know multiple strategies. If you engage rails ships you try to brawl as close as possible. If they're fitted with blaster you try to kite.

Gallente basically only needs one strategy ftw, blaster get up face to face and blast their face off. And rails you must keep their distance.


I guess that's another reason why many players tend to avoid them. But don't get me wrong, min still has good frigates but when it comes to t1 cruisers yikes!
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-07-20 18:13:19 UTC
Well, there are several things minmitar are still good at.

First, out of the t1 frigates the slasher is the best instant lock frigate for camps. The 4 mid slots allow mwd, disruptor, and two sensor boosts which should give you almost 3k scan res and the fast hull and mwd should allow point long enough for your fleet to do its job. Best t1 ship of its class for the role. I'd imagine the t2 interceptor variant is probably the best for the job overall.

Next, as many have said thrashers are still very good. Particularly fleets of alpha arty thrashers are nasty. In fact, minmitar has ships of every class that are great artillery instant alpha gank boats and I've seen the battleship (can't remember which one) lock my blackbird and take out 40% of my armor and all of my shields instantly before I could lock him and apply jams. And he hits from the same range. In fact, I lost a sniper cormorant to that same fit flown by a different pilot a couple weeks ago when he literally one shotted me from 100km.

Also the svipul I see all the time, though I have to admit I don't feel particularly threatened by it.

The sabre I see often as well as the scythe, vagabonds I still see some times and stabbers are still decent frig killing solo boats which I still see commonly in lowsec.

So yeah minmitar is not the I win button that they used to be but they are still very good in many roles.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2015-07-20 18:33:20 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
[quote=Ares Desideratus]The vagabond have problems matching a thorax inside tackle range.

That's just not true. A Thorax would have to be using Neutrons with Null to be able to project meaningful damage to the edge of scram range. But a more realistic situation would be Ion blasters because it is quite difficult to fit Neutrons on a Thorax and still get a reasonable tank out of it. Neutrons are fine if you fit a super light tank but then you have absolutely no business getting near a Vaga in one, that is, even if you could catch him in the first place!

I don't understand why so many people want to fly the Vaga as a speed tanking brawler these days. The ship is the perfect kiter. It can project damage reasonably well, has very good tracking, it's one of the fastest cruisers in the game with a very solid tank, signature, resist combo + a medium neut. It's the perfect solo and small gang nano kiter. Don't fly a Vaga into scram range on a Deimos and then complain about AC imbalance.

Having said all that I'm not against an AC change but Min are not quite as horrible as some say.


You can't kite with the Vagabond because everything is either faster than it or vastly outranges it. Sentry drones will murder you from 3x your weapons range, and it's actually slower than most other ships used in solo/small gang PvP. Navy Omen, Scythe Fleet, and the Orthrus are all much faster. Your resists are ****, (kinetic hole is not good when Eve has more kinetic damage flying around than all other types combined) and the fact that Eve PvP is almost completely dominated by Gallente means Barrage (kinetic damage) is also quite bad.
Legatus1982
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-07-20 19:03:51 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
[quote=Ares Desideratus]The vagabond have problems matching a thorax inside tackle range.

That's just not true. A Thorax would have to be using Neutrons with Null to be able to project meaningful damage to the edge of scram range. But a more realistic situation would be Ion blasters because it is quite difficult to fit Neutrons on a Thorax and still get a reasonable tank out of it. Neutrons are fine if you fit a super light tank but then you have absolutely no business getting near a Vaga in one, that is, even if you could catch him in the first place!

I don't understand why so many people want to fly the Vaga as a speed tanking brawler these days. The ship is the perfect kiter. It can project damage reasonably well, has very good tracking, it's one of the fastest cruisers in the game with a very solid tank, signature, resist combo + a medium neut. It's the perfect solo and small gang nano kiter. Don't fly a Vaga into scram range on a Deimos and then complain about AC imbalance.

Having said all that I'm not against an AC change but Min are not quite as horrible as some say.


You can't kite with the Vagabond because everything is either faster than it or vastly outranges it. Sentry drones will murder you from 3x your weapons range, and it's actually slower than most other ships used in solo/small gang PvP. Navy Omen, Scythe Fleet, and the Orthrus are all much faster. Your resists are ****, (kinetic hole is not good when Eve has more kinetic damage flying around than all other types combined) and the fact that Eve PvP is almost completely dominated by Gallente means Barrage (kinetic damage) is also quite bad.


Did they change vagabonds recently? Vagabonds used to be the kings of kite, even moving faster than most mwd frigs and while interceptors can catch it, they would typically get blapped before doing so.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#28 - 2015-07-20 19:30:11 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
[quote=Ares Desideratus]The vagabond have problems matching a thorax inside tackle range.


I don't understand why so many people want to fly the Vaga as a speed tanking brawler these days. The ship is the perfect kiter. It can project damage reasonably well, has very good tracking, it's one of the fastest cruisers in the game with a very solid tank, signature, resist combo + a medium neut. It's the perfect solo and small gang nano kiter. Don't fly a Vaga into scram range on a Deimos and then complain about AC imbalance.

Having said all that I'm not against an AC change but Min are not quite as horrible as some say.


Ill preface this by saying ive flown kite vagas since 2013ish.. and used to fly then regularly in FW until orthrus/garm became the norm.

People fly brawly vagas because kite vagas are garbage right now. EFT numbers look nice, but thats all it is, looks. My 220 XLASB double TE + t2 ambit rigged fit had a range of 27km with faction doing about 500dps (on paper, with drones). With barrage, i can shoot out to about 40km, and then do about 400ish with drones.

Now, once you realize you lose dps from 1.5km+ then it spirals downward. Using faction ammo, at point range you are doing FRIGATE/DESTROYER level dps. In some cases not even breaking 300dps. With barrage that number goes above 300dps, maybe around 350 IIRC. However with barrage you are now locked in explosive damage (not kinetic), which means the pathetic 350dps (from a HAC) is immediately halfed against a shield ships natural resists. And this is at 22-24km, it gets even worse the farther away you get. So, youre spending 200-300m for a HAC, that a worm can do for a fraction of the cost. For perspective, a dual rep thorax/vexor could perma tank you. Least until cap boosters ran out. Which, his friends would show up by then.

Next up is speed. The vaga is "fast" in some regard, but its got terrible agility for a kite ship. In fact, a deimos will out accelerate a vagabond. Making it a non-issue to catch or slingshot a vaga. Combined with a weakish tank makes for a quick death. A medium neut wont shutdown a deimos' tank/guns, since most fit CB. Trying to brawl in a vaga opens up SOME benefits for acs, such as semi-selectable damage types. But again, why bring acs to a blaster fight? Combine this with the fact other ships go just as fast as the vaga, have better agility, AND cost less. Its easy to see why kite vagas are garbage and why more people try to brawl with them. Course, 1-2 slot tanks are sketchy at best.

Muninn would be a better brawler than a vaga if it had a 4th mid.


Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#29 - 2015-07-21 11:21:12 UTC
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-07-21 15:56:18 UTC
Minmatar's niche is not being in a niche.

Yes, gone are the days of Winmatar and Welpcanes and "lol ACs rulez." I guess you could say they got nerfed to hell. Or you could say they got balanced (which is a good thing because you see more ships now). Unless something has changed drastically in the last year (and I dont think it has), the Breacher, Rifter and Slasher (although I dont fly Slashers) are all good pvp ships. Thrashers still rock. I personally like the Stabber AC or Arty fit. I dont fly the Rupture, so cant comment there.

ACs give supreme versatility in their engagement envelope. You can outrange all other short range turrets, and get under the guns of all other long range turrets. They are not better than blasters or pulses, or better than rails or beams, but they can do an adequate job at both roles inside scram range. Minmatar can adequately fit armor or shield. That is a good role, IMHO. The may not be the absolute best at any one thing, but they are good at a lot of things. With smart piloting (that I am not always capable of), you can take advantage of your versatility against almost any enemy "niche" fit.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#31 - 2015-07-21 16:22:23 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
some projectile platforms are the best at pve stuff, Vargur, Sleipnir, Machariel (pirate but still projectile based)


funny, you just named the best solo/small gang pvp ships in their class
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#32 - 2015-07-21 16:51:18 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Minmatar's niche is not being in a niche.

Yes, gone are the days of Winmatar and Welpcanes and "lol ACs rulez." I guess you could say they got nerfed to hell. Or you could say they got balanced (which is a good thing because you see more ships now). Unless something has changed drastically in the last year (and I dont think it has), the Breacher, Rifter and Slasher (although I dont fly Slashers) are all good pvp ships. Thrashers still rock. I personally like the Stabber AC or Arty fit. I dont fly the Rupture, so cant comment there.

ACs give supreme versatility in their engagement envelope. You can outrange all other short range turrets, and get under the guns of all other long range turrets. They are not better than blasters or pulses, or better than rails or beams, but they can do an adequate job at both roles inside scram range. Minmatar can adequately fit armor or shield. That is a good role, IMHO. The may not be the absolute best at any one thing, but they are good at a lot of things. With smart piloting (that I am not always capable of), you can take advantage of your versatility against almost any enemy "niche" fit.


If they had nerfed acs and didnt buff every other weapon shortly there after, we would be fine. That is not the case sadly. Acs may have been powerful at one point. Or a few select ships were powerful with them. But CCP nerfing TE to nerf the blaster talos really hurt acs.

The fact blasters have the potential to operate in similar ranges, track better and out dps acs is a bit problematic. Large blasters particularly can shoot out to 35-40km with null without much issue. Small blasters are alil better. Mediums are iffy, still trying to figure out how a blaster brutix shot me at 25km.

I am curious on your arty stabber. Seeing as how 720s use all your grid before prop/tank. Unless youre using 650s? Which are kinda terrible.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-07-21 19:02:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Hrett wrote:
Minmatar's niche is not being in a niche.

Yes, gone are the days of Winmatar and Welpcanes and "lol ACs rulez." I guess you could say they got nerfed to hell. Or you could say they got balanced (which is a good thing because you see more ships now). Unless something has changed drastically in the last year (and I dont think it has), the Breacher, Rifter and Slasher (although I dont fly Slashers) are all good pvp ships. Thrashers still rock. I personally like the Stabber AC or Arty fit. I dont fly the Rupture, so cant comment there.

ACs give supreme versatility in their engagement envelope. You can outrange all other short range turrets, and get under the guns of all other long range turrets. They are not better than blasters or pulses, or better than rails or beams, but they can do an adequate job at both roles inside scram range. Minmatar can adequately fit armor or shield. That is a good role, IMHO. The may not be the absolute best at any one thing, but they are good at a lot of things. With smart piloting (that I am not always capable of), you can take advantage of your versatility against almost any enemy "niche" fit.


If they had nerfed acs and didnt buff every other weapon shortly there after, we would be fine. That is not the case sadly. Acs may have been powerful at one point. Or a few select ships were powerful with them. But CCP nerfing TE to nerf the blaster talos really hurt acs.

The fact blasters have the potential to operate in similar ranges, track better and out dps acs is a bit problematic. Large blasters particularly can shoot out to 35-40km with null without much issue. Small blasters are alil better. Mediums are iffy, still trying to figure out how a blaster brutix shot me at 25km.

I am curious on your arty stabber. Seeing as how 720s use all your grid before prop/tank. Unless youre using 650s? Which are kinda terrible.


Small neutrons will null optimal + falloff is about 7.5k or so. 200mm AC opt + falloff is about 10k, maybe more with just faction ammo. Its far more with barrage. Thus scram kite blasters and rush rails.

Im no expert on links, but if a Brutix shot you at 25k he was either at the extreme edge of his range, linked, or using rails. :)

Yes - the Stabber is 650s. 720s absolutely will not fit in any reasonable fit. I tried. Pretty sure even the 650s required an ACR and PDS. I put LMLs in the remaining highs. If anything gets in neut range, you are dead anyway, so why bother. And Im not saying its the best ship ever, but it was comparable in fleets with other rail/beam ships. I havent flown it again in the week or so Ive been back, but Im unaware of any changes that would make it different today. Regardless, the Rupture is probably a better arty ship, I was just in a Stabber phase. Its workable but probably not ideal. With the recent (or upcoming?) rail nerf, it probably makes Arty's and Beams more competitive, just by default.

The point I was trying to make is that I dont think that Minmatar are gimped. Necessarily nerfed? Yes. Gimped? No. I do agree they should probably be a bit faster (but not the most agile), but I cant complain greatly about their current state - at least in Cruisers and below. Just my opinion.

EDIT: And something someone reminded me of earlier - A fleet of arty Ruptures are still something you dont want to see. Ive been instapopped a few times. I am glad they are not around more.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-07-21 23:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
[quote=Ares Desideratus]The vagabond have problems matching a thorax inside tackle range.

That's just not true. A Thorax would have to be using Neutrons with Null to be able to project meaningful damage to the edge of scram range. But a more realistic situation would be Ion blasters because it is quite difficult to fit Neutrons on a Thorax and still get a reasonable tank out of it. Neutrons are fine if you fit a super light tank but then you have absolutely no business getting near a Vaga in one, that is, even if you could catch him in the first place!

I don't understand why so many people want to fly the Vaga as a speed tanking brawler these days. The ship is the perfect kiter. It can project damage reasonably well, has very good tracking, it's one of the fastest cruisers in the game with a very solid tank, signature, resist combo + a medium neut. It's the perfect solo and small gang nano kiter. Don't fly a Vaga into scram range on a Deimos and then complain about AC imbalance.

Having said all that I'm not against an AC change but Min are not quite as horrible as some say.



Because they are NOT good at that anymore.


At old days yes. but not today agasint good players.

Vagabond DPS at 24-28km (kite range) km is simply HORRIBLE. You are completely outdone by a RAIL THORAX!!!!! If you bring up a deimos of vigilant with rails is not even funny By the zealot, by the navy omen, by the ishtar (even after the nerfs) by the cerberus, by every fricking ship on the same bracket.


They need to get clser to have meaningful DPS, but that is suicidal due to scram effect. So you need to be brawlish, or to fight against horrible players. Otherwise there are several ships that outdo the vagabond.

Other side effect is that CCP made the nano nerf all WRONG and they still have not understood it. THey reduced massively the natural speed difference of the ships and the fittings capability of affect speed. Up tot he point that is irrelevant if you have 3 nanofibers on your ship, kiting is decided by overheat of the prop mod and if the other side can react in time. So ifyou want to kite you need to be at LEAST 50% faster than your enemy

The result is that beign 10% fasteris irrelevant, and people need to go all in with oversized prop mods. THis is all result of HORRIBLE idea of prop mod massive overheat bonus.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-07-21 23:36:18 UTC
Kalihira wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
some projectile platforms are the best at pve stuff, Vargur, Sleipnir, Machariel (pirate but still projectile based)


funny, you just named the best solo/small gang pvp ships in their class



If your definition of small gang pvp is station games then sure.

Otherwise they are completely outdoen by the t3s, orthrus, t3 destroyers... and a lot of stuff.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#36 - 2015-07-22 09:09:19 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Kalihira wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
some projectile platforms are the best at pve stuff, Vargur, Sleipnir, Machariel (pirate but still projectile based)


funny, you just named the best solo/small gang pvp ships in their class



If your definition of small gang pvp is station games then sure.

Otherwise they are completely outdoen by the t3s, orthrus, t3 destroyers... and a lot of stuff.


Made the bit you missed abit more pronounced. And no, im not talking about station games.....
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-07-22 13:26:01 UTC
I'm still in love with the hurricane. That thing is a hilariously good (i.e. underestimated) brawler and the fleet one is on completely fire sale prices right now.

I'm talking like sub 110m for a fleet hurricane. Sexy times. Sexy times.

The thing these ships have in common is the complete annihilation of small things when fit correctly and currently, flying small fast things is a very common sight in roaming gangs. Just a few of these ships above can carve huge holes in them admittedly because the pilots seem hugely overconfident and addicted to diving straight towards you instead of holding range. With an MJD, you have a get out of jail free card against kiters - "brawl, or I'll moonwalk out".

The reason I like the 'cane family above all others is because: capless guns, capless tank, tracking bonused ammunition available, barrage and drones can hold off smaller things at long ranges, dual 180mm ACs track exceptionally well especially when you have scram/web in play AND neuts. Also currently, bang for buck is off the charts on the fleet ones.

Not great for roaming, best as an escalation/bait play.

For everything else, gallente remain the master race.



Finally, I'm also a big stabber fleet fan, but again - because of underestimation.
Kojohn
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-07-22 22:04:00 UTC
This really should be "the state of Gallente Ships," because if you bring Gallente in line, Minmatar would still be competitive as hell.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2015-07-23 02:44:38 UTC
Kojohn wrote:
This really should be "the state of Gallente Ships," because if you bring Gallente in line, Minmatar would still be competitive as hell.


Other than the drone ships generally (that were recently addressed) which others are considered unbalanced? Rails were also nerfed in the last patch, right? What else is wrong?

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2015-07-23 11:04:30 UTC
Hrett wrote:
Kojohn wrote:
This really should be "the state of Gallente Ships," because if you bring Gallente in line, Minmatar would still be competitive as hell.


Other than the drone ships generally (that were recently addressed) which others are considered unbalanced? Rails were also nerfed in the last patch, right? What else is wrong?



Drone ships and rails? Lol

All I have to say is LOLWUT

OK, sure, "alpha", but is alpha worth having less DPS even through you have a 25% DPS buff to projectiles?

Imagine those rails on an actual bonused hull