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Inverting the Jump Drive Mechanics between Ships and Cynos

Author
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#1 - 2015-07-20 18:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
Part 1/2


Introduction:

In preparation to the ongoing efforts of Fozziesov, jump ranges on various ships have been altered in order to reduce power projection. Im combination with the introduction of Jump Fatigue this proves to be very effective - it is nearly impossible to project a capital force around or over the map of New Eden in a short timeframe.
However, the jump range changes also mean that it can be incredible hard to move capital ships in your very own homeland, as most regions stretch far over 5 or even 10 lightyears from edge to edge.
This thread is meant to adress this issue by inverting the current relationship between ships with a jump drive and a cynosural field, while also potentially offering ways to assault heavily defended regions.
It is NOT meant to adress jump fatigue in any form and will leave it UNTOUCHED.


The current state:

Right now, capital ships with the exception of jump freighters all share a 5ly range with Jump Drive Calibration 5. Jump freighters achieve 10ly of range, black ops battleships 8ly.
A cynosural field is required for all ships as a target beacon which they can jump to, black ops can also jump to a specialised cynosural field, the covert cynosural field which will, unlike the standard one, not appear on overview throughout the whole system once active.


The proposal:

Invert this behaviour. Instead of a ship with a maximum range it can jump, give cynosural fields a maximum broadcastable range. Every jump drive capable ship that is eligible to jump to that cynosural field and within it's broadcast radius will be able to see it and thus, jump to it.

The reason:

This allows one specific cynosural field, the Cynosural Generator Array structure, which can only be set up in space that your alliance or it's allies hold sovereignity in, to be jumpable from greater ranges than a cynosural field on a ship is. It is a bonus in homeland logistics, a shining beacon of safety and hospitality. Example values could be 10ly broadcast range, meaning better logistics and better defensive options in your very own space, something that is in line with game philosophy: If you fight for your piece of turf, you should have advantages.
At this point it is very important to keep in mind that with fozziesov, vast empires stretched over half the galaxy are gone, or doomed to be gone. Largely uninhabited space is hard to defend and will sooner or later fall. It is very unlikely to see insane power projection of capitals across New Eden through this change, especially since the range bonus is only granted on jumps into and within your own sovereignity by design.


The possibilities:

This change can then be built upon. What is a throwaway 1m ISK ship now - a rookie ship with a cyno - can be evolved into different grades of cynosural fields, ranging from a 5ly broadcast (the current cyno, as we know it) to specialised ships, modules and implants, tickling the most out of your cyno alts - while making them far too valuable in order to light a cyno and then get popped and/or podded at the same time.


The examples and opportunities:

This part is *NOT* the main proposal. The main proposal is, as stated above, the inversion of the relation between ships that are jump capable and cynosural fields.
However, this part highly encourages you to participate in a thriving discussion. Here is space for dreams, ideas, arguments, discussions.
I will now throw in my ideas on how different cynos, ship bonuses and modules can affect the EVE landscape.

Cynosural Fields and it's T2 variants
The current, well known cynosural field would have the current range as it's default broadcast range - 5ly. Any ship that is in fleet with this cyno and capable to perform a jump on it's own will be able to do so if it's within the broadcast range.
An upgrade would be the T2 cynosural field, which gains +20% in broadcast range over it's T1 counterpart and would hit 6ly of max range. The requirement could be Cynosural Field Theory to level 5.
The covert cynosural field would require a new, special skill, trained to level 1: Advanced Cynosural Field Theory(ACFT), injectable and trainable after Cynosural Field Theory has been brought to level 5.
It's default broadcast range is 8ly. It's T2 variant, which requires ACFT to level 5, would grant 9.6ly - a 20% increase over it's T1 counterpart.
Another unlockable cyno thorugh this skill would be the logistics cynosural field, also coming in a T1 and T2 variant, sharing the same requirements with the covert cyno. It's only lockable from the specialised Jump Drives of a jump freighter or capital industrial ship and is also broadcasted system wide, as the regular cyno is.
Jump ranges are 10ly for T1, and 12ly for T2.

Further possible cynos would be short duration, short broadcast range - or anything else people can come up with!

Note here that while T1 cynos are throwaway modules, the T2 counterparts would already be an investment that encourages you in trying to keep it alive until it's cycle is through. Something around a 15-20m ISK might be a good spot, as seen from current material prices.

Another thing the ACFT skill could do, is reducing the cycle time of a cyno by 5% per level. (DISCUSSION, PLEASE - Is it good if your cyno goes down earlier? Would you like to be able to keep it at max time? Is this bonus maybe pretty overpowered?)




[TBC]
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#2 - 2015-07-20 18:01:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
Part 2/2


Shipbonuses
Right now, force recon ships offer a 50% reduction in cynosural field duration, granted through a role bonus.
I'd propose to add - or replace this bonus with - a 5% bonus to cynosural field broadcast range per skill level of recon ships.
This would give recon pilots the possibility to get a logistics cyno running up to 15ly at max skills. What you pay for, though, is a 150m ISK ship that's locked in space and warpable by anyone in system for 5 minutes (or however the duration bonuses will work out)


Further modules to enhance your cynos
Basically, you fit them so you can modify the broadcastrange, fuel consumption or duration of your fitted cynos. These come at a cost, of course. You want a bonus, you need a drawback. Be it ISK, fitting, warpspeed, or any other thing people can come up with.


Further changes to existing, or introduction of new ships
Here I am looking at supercarriers. In Fozziesov, the only thing i can imagine them being useful in their current state is in order to dunk entosis capitals.
I propose for them to become powerful logistic hulls, designed to open assault paths into hostile territory - or become able to function as such through fitting of special modules.
Possibilites could be, but are not limited to:
-giving them clone vat bays (again)
-giving them a module that allows them to lock onto logistic cynos while simultaneously rendering them nearly incapable of combat
-giving them the possibility to increase their ship maintenance bays in order to store more space ships
-giving them a module that will allow the pilot to anchor the ship in place, becoming a ~fozziesov newpos~ that is unpilotable and functions as a small dockable station, granting access to different services according to modules fitted, while being vulnerable to entosis links (Maybe becoming desctructible after nodes have been assaulted, maybe allowing theft, maybe both, lacking vulnerability windows (read: 24/7 vulnerable), shortened reinforce timers, ...)
- etc, etc


Implants
Get the maximum out of your cyno alt. Be The One That Mattered, the one that made this incredible injection of capital forces deep into hostile space possible. Why?
Because you can, and because you trust your friends that they will save you, that they will keep your cyno alive and prevent your enemies from generating a multi billion ISK pod-killmail.


Jump Drive Calibration
Obviously, this skill would become obsolete.
Or reused, for other fancy mechanics:
We could add an 'accuracy' to jumps.
The better your accuracy, the closer you land to your cyno. I'm thinking about something along the lines of how mass affects your spawning position after you traverse a wormhole.
Lots of room for ideas here, to be honest. Lots of rooms.


Resumee:


A shift from maximum jumprange determined by different ship types over to different cyno types allows for greater diversity in jump logistics and strategies, mainly aimed at granting benefits for holding sov.
An introduction of this system, however, would also create incredible and unspoken amounts of possibilities to shape new strategic and tactical depth into EVE Online.



TL;DR

Take Jump Range from ships and put it into cynos. Then check out ways to enhance gameplay by balancing cynos.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2015-07-20 20:41:06 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
An introduction of this system, however, would also create incredible and unspoken amounts of possibilities to shape new strategic and tactical depth into EVE Online.

New? Unspoken? If my memory serves, this kind of range, strategic and tactical depth was present in EVE until December 2014. Roll Nothing new or unspoken has been suggested, just the old state back with a new name, and definitely going against the power projection nerf. You are not supposed to cross large distances with a jump drive with ease, regardless if it's your sov or not.
The point of the jump range nerf was to make your space more attackable and jog the safety of unused unused. You should not be able to jump caps from one end of the universe to the other nor should you be able to jump caps throughout your vast sov holdings just like that to react with them to intruders if you do not live in every corner of your space. Instead, you are supposed to have capital stashes or other ships ready in different corners of your space if you get close-by and have people live there, defending that part of your sov.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Iain Cariaba
#4 - 2015-07-20 21:05:55 UTC
Needs tl;dr, as tl;dr.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#5 - 2015-07-20 21:15:48 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Needs tl;dr, as tl;dr.


tl;dr added
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2015-07-20 21:37:21 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Needs tl;dr, as tl;dr.


tl;dr added

Thank you, tl;dr is intriguing enough to read the posts.

Your basic premise here is flawed. The jump nerfs were intended to nerf all jump travel, not just those outside what you perceive as "your" space. This was stated before the nerfs were implemented, along with the intention to eventually bring even jump freighters into line with the rest of the capitals.

The simple fact remains, if you control the space you're moving through, it isn't difficult to make a max range jump, wait out the timer, then make another max range jump, rinse and repeat as needed. Yes, it takes time, but then that's the point to the jump range nerfs.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-07-20 21:52:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Isn't CCP planning to introduce some sort of jump gate for players to create their own connections?

I may have misunderstood if that wasn't the intent.


The intent of nerfing force projection was to keep entities from occupying more than they can maintain security for, which gives other entities potential to occupy areas of null that couldn't be secured, though, they're often not the best of areas.

It also presents both defenders and attackers with meaningful choices.
You're being attacked on two sides.
Do you project your fleet north, south, split the fleet, or let both areas fall and setup a defensive posture?

For too long, null sec was easy mode, which wasn't the intent. Alliances had become too comfortable and maintained vast amounts of space that were easily defended due to force projection, which essentially allowed fleets to be in multiple places with ease.
Iain Cariaba
#8 - 2015-07-20 22:06:09 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Isn't CCP planning to introduce some sort of jump gate for players to create their own connections?

That feature is coming Soon(tm).
Thron Legacy
White Zulu
Scorpion Federation
#9 - 2015-07-21 00:40:15 UTC
to OP
well made post, easy to read, love it
some of the ideas I like, some I dont
You want to increase the range of every cyno, heres my idea
Cyno array at POS, good idea, but reduce it to 8 LY
normal cyno, not more than 5
logistics cyno, maybe small nerf?
black ops, some ideas
first of all remove that skill, it just sux to have like extra 50 days for max jump range
then, increase covops cyno range BUT
increase black ops portal cycle time to 60s (in which it cant jump and cant be refueled)
what this would do?
you can still use blops to cross vast distances, but cant launch stealth bombers that far cause more range= more consumption, and not being able to refuel for 60s
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#10 - 2015-07-21 04:04:41 UTC
The current system works well and is achieving the intended results. It does not need to be easier to move a capital fleet, even within one region.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#11 - 2015-07-21 13:31:53 UTC
-1 because this is just another I hate jump fatigue topic thinly disguised.

It amazes me how much time people will put into a way to negate the jump range / jump use nerfs CCP wisely put into the game.
I also wonder what they could achieve in game if they applied the same amount of time thinking of ways to use the current system to their advantage?
Iain Cariaba
#12 - 2015-07-21 15:21:26 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
-1 because this is just another I hate jump fatigue topic thinly disguised.

Not even thinly, was pretty obvious actually.
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#13 - 2015-07-21 17:32:12 UTC
Quote:
However, the jump range changes also mean that it can be incredible hard to move capital ships in your very own homeland, as most regions stretch far over 5 or even 10 lightyears from edge to edge.


Maybe the jump range nerfs were intended to make it so that an entire region should not be one alliance's "homeland"?

Maybe THE ENTIRE POINT was to make the EVE universe "bigger" by way of making traveling slower?

And maybe there are still forum warriors who just can't wrap their heads around that and continue to post endless "well, just give us this one little implant / rig / skill to increase jump range/decrease fatigue because WAAAAAAAMBULANCE."
159Pinky
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-07-21 20:14:48 UTC
Sure, add this range defining option to the cyno ships. With the same range restrictions as we currently have Cool
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#15 - 2015-07-21 22:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Part 2/2


Shipbonuses
Right now, force recon ships offer a 50% reduction in cynosural field duration, granted through a role bonus.
I'd propose to add - or replace this bonus with - a 5% bonus to cynosural field broadcast range per skill level of recon ships.
This would give recon pilots the possibility to get a logistics cyno running up to 15ly at max skills. What you pay for, though, is a 150m ISK ship that's locked in space and warpable by anyone in system for 5 minutes (or however the duration bonuses will work out)




Where is the downside here? We can safely say for many well set up crews 150 mil is chump change in terms of FRP/SRP pay out. The crew you are in for example has FRP/SRP to cover cap losses in the lots of billions. What's another 150 mil, hell have 3 recons for 450 mil, when the accounting section is covering cap losses in the billions.


The homeland security aspect I'd say was intentional as well. As well....they want "fortress" fill in region to not be so fortressy. Under old system it was storming the beach head that was very problematic. Attackers stage on an edge system or 2 (could be nearest 0.0 NPC to have station access), defenders on them like white on rice....and say hello to grind. The only deep burning question was is will the defenders commit "core" crew assets or use the meatshield pets as cannon fodder really. As well....meatshield pets usually given periphery systems and "core" crew in deeper region of the blue ball to decide when/if they could be assed to help out.

I was in one crew we didn't see core crew commitment until we ground down the pet shields. Then it became like insert Japanese based action game....the good old several stage boss fight. Kill the boss in lowest form, cut scene, now you meet the boss in another form.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-07-22 01:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I like this idea a lot, primarily because it has always bothered me that low-skilled capital pilots (with low or no jump drive calibration) are often unable to field capitals with the rest of the group because it is often more important to space the jump points as far apart as possible. With this change, jump drive calibration can be renamed to cynosural field calibration (no prerequisite change is necessary) and the jump range can be dependent on the cyno lighter instead of every individual member of the capital fleet. This will allow newer capital pilots to focus on the skills that actually boost the stats of their capital ships on the field, which ought to be more important.

I also like the idea of having anchorable cyno structures allowing capital fleets to travel farther within one's own sovereignty network. Goonswarm and Pandemic Legion will not be able to abuse the system to the degree that they can traverse the entire galaxy in a day, but they will undoubtedly try to space out their sovereignty a bit which may drive conflict as they may opt to gain sovereignty in areas surrounded by enemies.

Lastly, it'll be nice to give Force Recon an actual role (cyno range boost) rather than leaving them to just be the covert-ops combat recon. I don't think they should affect the anchorable homeland beacons (no 15LY jump range, just no), but they should be able to reduce the range loss somewhat when jumping into enemy territory.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."