Ships & Modules

Hi there,

well thank you guys for the fruitful discussion! You are helping me a lot to get a better overview and get back into the game!



Well especially thanks to you Sir! Nice post there and it helps me a lot. I hope i don't bother you to ask even further questions!

Do you have a reference of the patch details? I'd like to read them. Not that I don't believe you! But I'd like to read about the details! What exactly did they do to the cannons etc.

In terms of PvP (and a lack a lot of experience in this matter!) is the alpha really such a huge thing?



Okay, this is a really nice and seemingly objective description of the current state. More diversity sounds good! The shorter stick doesn't of course. But in a game like this it doesn't matter that much and maybe there is a rebalance incoming in the next months or so...



What is a blap? :D

Well after reading all this stuff it seems, that I am going to skill towards the Tengu. I really like the idea of the diversity and it seems, that the Tengu does it better than the Loki.
Anyways I like the discussion and I really like to hear other opinions about the state of Minmatar ships or ship diversity in general.

I play in FW so my experience is based on what I see there.

At the moment, comet is a superb ship. You can easily notice that because everyone and their mom is flying them. It feels like the new rifter.

I always been a fan of minmatar and I've tried and tried to make them work. For instance, dual web+art firetail in no way can win a well pilot comet with rails. I seriously mean it, 280mm art is pretty crappy.

It's a slow system, misses hell a lot even with dual webs up. Besides, comet has a lot more tank and their shots are always landing on the spot even at 1.5k km which is crazy.

When it comes to blaster versus ac, it's basically the same situation. Only if you switch to barrage and do crappy dps at 9km can you dodge a few bullets. If you are at 7 km nearly to 8km blasters are still hitting you with the support of drones.

I wouldn't exactly say comet is op but it's very strong and also ac and art for frigates are in crappy shape. I really can't see any advantage on using artillary at the moment. When it comes to ac basically you have a slight better fall off range compared to blasters and that's pretty much all.


Minmatar on the other hands, always has been a race that you need to train multiple weapons so you can work effectively with them. Furthermore, their ac ships tend to be harder to fly, since you need to know multiple strategies. If you engage rails ships you try to brawl as close as possible. If they're fitted with blaster you try to kite.

Gallente basically only needs one strategy ftw, blaster get up face to face and blast their face off. And rails you must keep their distance.


I guess that's another reason why many players tend to avoid them. But don't get me wrong, min still has good frigates but when it comes to t1 cruisers yikes!

You can't kite with the Vagabond because everything is either faster than it or vastly outranges it. Sentry drones will murder you from 3x your weapons range, and it's actually slower than most other ships used in solo/small gang PvP. Navy Omen, Scythe Fleet, and the Orthrus are all much faster. Your resists are ****, (kinetic hole is not good when Eve has more kinetic damage flying around than all other types combined) and the fact that Eve PvP is almost completely dominated by Gallente means Barrage (kinetic damage) is also quite bad.

Ill preface this by saying ive flown kite vagas since 2013ish.. and used to fly then regularly in FW until orthrus/garm became the norm.

People fly brawly vagas because kite vagas are garbage right now. EFT numbers look nice, but thats all it is, looks. My 220 XLASB double TE + t2 ambit rigged fit had a range of 27km with faction doing about 500dps (on paper, with drones). With barrage, i can shoot out to about 40km, and then do about 400ish with drones.

Now, once you realize you lose dps from 1.5km+ then it spirals downward. Using faction ammo, at point range you are doing FRIGATE/DESTROYER level dps. In some cases not even breaking 300dps. With barrage that number goes above 300dps, maybe around 350 IIRC. However with barrage you are now locked in explosive damage (not kinetic), which means the pathetic 350dps (from a HAC) is immediately halfed against a shield ships natural resists. And this is at 22-24km, it gets even worse the farther away you get. So, youre spending 200-300m for a HAC, that a worm can do for a fraction of the cost. For perspective, a dual rep thorax/vexor could perma tank you. Least until cap boosters ran out. Which, his friends would show up by then.

Next up is speed. The vaga is "fast" in some regard, but its got terrible agility for a kite ship. In fact, a deimos will out accelerate a vagabond. Making it a non-issue to catch or slingshot a vaga. Combined with a weakish tank makes for a quick death. A medium neut wont shutdown a deimos' tank/guns, since most fit CB. Trying to brawl in a vaga opens up SOME benefits for acs, such as semi-selectable damage types. But again, why bring acs to a blaster fight? Combine this with the fact other ships go just as fast as the vaga, have better agility, AND cost less. Its easy to see why kite vagas are garbage and why more people try to brawl with them. Course, 1-2 slot tanks are sketchy at best.

Muninn would be a better brawler than a vaga if it had a 4th mid.

Minmatar's niche is not being in a niche.

Yes, gone are the days of Winmatar and Welpcanes and "lol ACs rulez." I guess you could say they got nerfed to hell. Or you could say they got balanced (which is a good thing because you see more ships now). Unless something has changed drastically in the last year (and I dont think it has), the Breacher, Rifter and Slasher (although I dont fly Slashers) are all good pvp ships. Thrashers still rock. I personally like the Stabber AC or Arty fit. I dont fly the Rupture, so cant comment there.

ACs give supreme versatility in their engagement envelope. You can outrange all other short range turrets, and get under the guns of all other long range turrets. They are not better than blasters or pulses, or better than rails or beams, but they can do an adequate job at both roles inside scram range. Minmatar can adequately fit armor or shield. That is a good role, IMHO. The may not be the absolute best at any one thing, but they are good at a lot of things. With smart piloting (that I am not always capable of), you can take advantage of your versatility against almost any enemy "niche" fit.

If they had nerfed acs and didnt buff every other weapon shortly there after, we would be fine. That is not the case sadly. Acs may have been powerful at one point. Or a few select ships were powerful with them. But CCP nerfing TE to nerf the blaster talos really hurt acs.

The fact blasters have the potential to operate in similar ranges, track better and out dps acs is a bit problematic. Large blasters particularly can shoot out to 35-40km with null without much issue. Small blasters are alil better. Mediums are iffy, still trying to figure out how a blaster brutix shot me at 25km.

I am curious on your arty stabber. Seeing as how 720s use all your grid before prop/tank. Unless youre using 650s? Which are kinda terrible.

Because they are NOT good at that anymore.


At old days yes. but not today agasint good players.

Vagabond DPS at 24-28km (kite range) km is simply HORRIBLE. You are completely outdone by a RAIL THORAX!!!!! If you bring up a deimos of vigilant with rails is not even funny By the zealot, by the navy omen, by the ishtar (even after the nerfs) by the cerberus, by every fricking ship on the same bracket.


They need to get clser to have meaningful DPS, but that is suicidal due to scram effect. So you need to be brawlish, or to fight against horrible players. Otherwise there are several ships that outdo the vagabond.

Other side effect is that CCP made the nano nerf all WRONG and they still have not understood it. THey reduced massively the natural speed difference of the ships and the fittings capability of affect speed. Up tot he point that is irrelevant if you have 3 nanofibers on your ship, kiting is decided by overheat of the prop mod and if the other side can react in time. So ifyou want to kite you need to be at LEAST 50% faster than your enemy

The result is that beign 10% fasteris irrelevant, and people need to go all in with oversized prop mods. THis is all result of HORRIBLE idea of prop mod massive overheat bonus.

Made the bit you missed abit more pronounced. And no, im not talking about station games.....

This really should be "the state of Gallente Ships," because if you bring Gallente in line, Minmatar would still be competitive as hell.

Drone ships and rails?

All I have to say is LOLWUT

OK, sure, "alpha", but is alpha worth having less DPS even through you have a 25% DPS buff to projectiles?

Imagine those rails on an actual bonused hull