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After Sentry nerf, what's a good nullsec PvE Ishtar replacement?
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Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#1 - 2015-07-19 02:16:08 UTC
Hi.

I've been belt ratting and site-running in my shield-tanked Ishtar in Angel nullsec. After the nefts, I'm worried about performance. My Ishtar still handles belt-ratting, no problem and can run the lower level sites, but just can't tank the damage in Angel Hubs and Rally Points. And the sentries don't really melt stuff quite as fast now. I'm wondering if I need a new approach with my existing Ishtar, or if I should just trade it in for something more efficient.

Limitations - I can't afford to fly (and occasionally lose) a battleship or a Tech 3 cruiser - so don't suggest one. Even as it is, losing my Ishtar would really set me back (not devastating, but it would certainly hurt). Also, I don't want to bling fit it. Tech 2 stuff generally.

I don't really like playing with drones too much as a personal preference, but if that's what works, I'll deal with it.

I was looking at the Gila in particular, but anything around the Ishtar's price point would work. Or a better Ishtar fit than my shield tank with drone damage amps in the lows.

Thanks.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#2 - 2015-07-19 02:21:52 UTC
Just a crazy thought here. Since Ishtar iis Gallente and most Gallente ships favor armor thanks have you thought about switching?
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#3 - 2015-07-19 02:24:11 UTC
I'm open to it. Not sure what a good armor fit would be though, and piloting tactics for using it.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#4 - 2015-07-19 03:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
What was your old fit?

I do not recommend an armor Ishtar against Angels. The weak point for an armor Ishtar is the explosive damage.

If I was interested in belt ratting in Angel space, I would probably try out this fit.

Quote:
[Gila, Gila]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
Large Azeotropic Restrained Shield Extender
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Valkyrie II x2
Valkyrie II x8

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2015-07-19 05:00:53 UTC
in my experience angels miss anything that moves. pretty sure an ishtar will be fine with any tank, assuming you are using a 10 or 100mn ab. best part of the ishtar is it doesn't have to tank, it has the mobility it can evade. between berserkers and bouncers you will probably be fine.

maybe reconsider battleships, after insurance they are way cheaper than ishtars. Hell an insured mach probably isn't much more than an ishtar right now (take 110m off the price tag). and any t1 bs will be way less. Tempest got a nice buff recently, a shield fit does 1k dps pretty easily, and insurance pays ~130m, so you pay 40m plus fittings on jita price. and you have utility highs so you can fit neuts to fight back against people that attack you, or at least hopefully neut their point off.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-07-19 19:34:43 UTC
Passive tanked Ishtar with explosive resist mod should be fine. You can use an AB or go propless. Use Ogre II's (or Beserkers maybe vs angels?) and orbit at 30 targeting frigates first and managing the spawn triggers.

I'm thinking 2-3 shield power relays and 3-4 DDA's in the lows with 2 large extenders, explosive invuln and AB in mids or drop the AB for a 3rd LSE. Pair of T2 shield recharge rigs. I would be surprised if this isn't able to tank every anom. Then just figure out if Ogres or Beserkers gives you more actual damage.

Ishtar is half the cost of Gila and can push out a bit more drone DPS I'd stick with it if possible.
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#7 - 2015-07-20 04:25:35 UTC
My current Ishtar fit - after taking the advice from Demetrius - is as follows:

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
2x Shield Power Relay II
1x Damage Control II

1x 10MN Afterburner II
2x Large Shield Extender II
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

2x Drone Link Augmentor

And two empty high slots - I only have about 13 power grid left, and can't fit anything else, even with a Squire Power Grid Management EG-601 implant.

1x Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
1x Medium Core Defense Field Purger II


My alliance has some battleship BPCs available to use freely, so I might make a project of building my own once I've gotten a sense of how much time investment it takes.

Anyway, thanks for the responses so far.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-07-20 07:32:40 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Then just figure out if Ogres or Beserkers gives you more actual damage.

Pretty sure it's Berserkers. Was this way even before rebalance. 58% damage is superior to 38% in this case even with base damage difference, especially if you consider speed and tracking of minmatar drones.

Other than that, thank you for detailed answer.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#9 - 2015-07-20 21:53:24 UTC
Well, I've been carrying 5 Berserkers, and they seem to work OK, except when I get to far away from them and they pull aggro and get melted before I can recall them. I also carry 5 Bouncers and they're nice for insta-popping frigates and destroyers at long range, and a few cruisers before the rest of the fleet closes distance with me and I have to switch them out for Berserkers. I also carry 5 Warriors in case some frigates slip in close, and 5 ECM drones for worst case scenarios.
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-07-20 22:52:08 UTC
Stop using sentries and terrible ishtar fits maybe?

Also Stop using thermal drones.
Drone Damage By Type

Using terrible and expecting awesome just results in more terrible.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2015-07-20 23:01:56 UTC
Riel Saigo wrote:
My alliance has some battleship BPCs available to use freely, so I might make a project of building my own once I've gotten a sense of how much time investment it takes.


find a station you can manufacture in, grab bpc, buy mats (preferably in station, otherwise you have to haul them), click build, wait a bit, deliver. manufacturing is pretty simple. although I'm not sure how developed various nullsec markets are. might just be easier to buy the battleship.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Riel Saigo
Facta.Non.Verba
#12 - 2015-07-21 02:13:59 UTC
Bouncers and Berserkers both use explosive damage. Seems to work on Angels OK.