EVE General Discussion

*** A message from CODE. alliance ***

3 steps to avoid being hyperdunked, a player alternative.

1) be at the keyboard.
2) be in the anti-ganking channel.
3) if you get bumped start screaming in that channel and people will roll out and try to save you.

There's the player counter to hyperdunking, a channel who's primary goal in Eve is to stop ganks. If you aren't willing to utilize the free service that the 400+ member anti-ganking community provides then maybe you don't really need your ship.

Lay off the nerfs/changes when real people are trying to fight this battle in space everyday. We don't always get along with our AG brethren, for obvious reasons, but getting bears to come out and fight us or spoil our ganks is all part of the New Order's plan for highsec. We will always support and encourage PvP over CCPvP and you should too.

Everything is proceeding as James 315 has foreseen...

*** end message ***

Just one more nerf and it will be balanced.

You see, this is why I blocked Lucas - he takes pedantry to a whole new level. Technically he is correct - I am sure there is a NPC corp member somewhere who has recently lost a ship in highsec to something other than a suicide gank, but that is beside the whole point - there really is no risk for haulers or miners in NPC corps other than suicide ganking now.

There used to be can flipping and baiting, but campaigning by the make-Eve-a-single-player-game crowd got that made fully consensual with Crimewatch 2.0 (set it green and you can never flag yourself, even by accident). This anti-player interaction camp also got duel-spamming nerfed with a toggle. We briefly had a little loophole where there was risk for mission runners while using an MTU (and who still have some risk of failing to read Eve-Survival correctly), but that got patched out quickly. There is literally no risk left to say a dedicated NPC-corp freighter pilot in highsec other than a suicide gank.

This is all well and good and I do think tricking a player into PvP in highsec needed some attention and clarity. But you cannot now come here and argue with a straight face that there is any risk left for these players in highsec other than a suicide gank. With a green safety and auto-reject duels turned on, you cannot flag yourself even by mistake. You cannot be wardecced. There are no aggressive NPCs on belts or gates that are capable of destroying a tanked mining barge, let alone a freighter.

All we have left is suicide ganking. We are at peak safety, there is no more room for nerfs. In fact, I think CCP and their Drifter friends are are working on plans to increase risk in highsec as we speak.

Lol, I block Lucas and yet here I go still responding to his bait. Well played.

I bet if you ask him to provide a proper list of dangers a hauling hauler is suffering from, he will post his usual deranged nonsense avoiding the question. Like he always does. And maybe you should block Kaarous too, because he is one of the biggest reasons shitposters like Lucas and La Rynx get so much attention. No offence, Kaarous, but your behaviour is equal to his and needs to be corrected badly.

Reported because rant

Ah but I did not report his post as a rant, thanks for confirming something else to me...

i appreciate that you can discuss things without resorting to ad-hominems. a bit condescending, but this is a new character and i can accept that my experience in the game would appear to match that.

but let me make something 100% clear.

the only interest i have in this discussion is hyperdunking. anything else implied in my posts is just a red herring or strawman argument. if it isn't about hyperdunking i am not interested in it.

thanks.

I am confused then. You understand that freighters are suppose to be vulnerable in highsec. Hyperdunking is an emergent strategy to attack them that is consistent with the aggression rules of highsec as designed by CCP, and has been confirmed as legitimate by CCP Falcon in the first post of this thread. Yet you seem to be asking for hyperdunking to be removed artificially from the game by changing the game mechanics so that it is impossible.

Why should CCP change the rules of the game to be in the favour of freighter pilots? They aren't dying more. And of the ones that explode, only a fraction of them fall to hyperdunkers so if you made hyperdunking impossible it really wouldn't change much at all. You are asking for a balance change for no reason other than you seem to think freighters should be safe from hyperdunkers - it's a circular argument.

Where do you want to draw the line? Is it ok if 2 people hyperdunk? Or six people? Is it ok if bumpers tackle the ship for 15 minutes and then the gankers attack the half-dead freighter after their flag has expired? Is it ok to use hyperdunking against abandoned POS structures as has been the traditional use? What makes that line you drew better than the line that CCP has already drawn?

You are asking for something that will decrease the number of freighters (albeit by a tiny amount) that will explode in highsec for no other reason than you think it is unfair. Eve Online is suppose to be unfair - the strong get to victimize the weak - it has been designed that way. What is strange to me is that you picked hyperdunking, the most easy to counter and avoid form of ganking to focus your efforts on. Why has such a niche activity ruffled your feathers so much? There are plenty of other "unfair" strategies being use much more in this game to explode people than the unfortunately-named hyperdunk.

Let me finish with two quotes from CCP Falcon as I think his words apropos:





It's not CCP's job to protect you from hyperdunkers. That is your job.

Note the comment reactive and punitive, as anyone who understands law enforcement, there has to be an effective deterrence otherwise the police are just wasting their time. The issue is in the punitive comment, there is basically no real punitive in what happens to gankers, they lose a ship that they intend to lose anyway, they have another Concord loss to deal with which is a shuttle or noob ship and then they have a 15 minute timer as a criminal and security status hit that above a certain level allows people to shoot them on sight, but after that second ship loss they can still go and do stuff. None of that is really punitive, so people can pull that quote out like some religious mantra, but it means nothing.

Take the next part of his quote, its amazing to come across a developer who does not understand his own game, bring guns, well what the hell does that do in hisec, start shooting as soon as they go flashy red, too late...



People do not assume they are safe in hisec, with CODE being the highest killing alliance in the game, all in hisec space based on ISK value, its not safe. Its just safer in terms of open combat, which requires a war dec.

Spatial awareness is knowing what is going on around you, you can be ganked quite easily even with a scout, I have seen people do it, its called an off grid perch, scout jumps in sees nothing on gate warps to next gate in comes twin Vexors and dropT2 Sentries, in comes target hauler pop. Recently I have seen people point out that their watch list has got so big that even being aware of gankers and checking for them means nothing because they are all over the place. I pass through the pipe and I see at least 20 who gank, so much for spatial awareness. In some pipe systems there are a mass of ships moving through, do you jump through when the gate is clear and no one on D-scan?

Lets take Osmon as a good example, you cannot get local big enough to see all of the people in local, same for Jita and same for a number of pipe systems.

EDIT: The conclusion is that the deterrence level is too low so its become too widespread that spatial awareness has hardly any value. Also Lucas Kell's post above it so spot on in terms of hyperdunking.

thanks