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War against escalated play costs

Author
Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2015-07-20 09:36:59 UTC
Post will not be about high PLEX prices , how much you can get from running incursion, WH capital escalations , farming FW or lvl 5 missions.
Income is important.
CCP proved this by boosting nullsec anomalies spawns.

I thing that and many decisions before where wrong.
CCP should work not about providing new and bigger sources of income, but about making game less demanding in terms of entry level.

Over the years , we shifted from T1 battle cruisers to T2/T3 and Faction ships.
For older players this is acceptable , they are managing , but as much they are important to game, in long term they are ones that getting bored and leave the game.

New players , the guys who are the "next generation" have hard times to buy and replace ships required for current fleet meta.
Those people instead of having fun, flying around killing and dieing need to constantly farm to get more and more isk.

We need to end this circle of nonsense, well as a players we cannot do nothing, but if you provide enough support maybe someone in CCP finally understand that EVE is not about how many ISK / Plex you can get for hour , but how many SHIPS you can buy for hour of boring farming .

Making more , and easier ways to get isk is not the way.
Best thing is brining old battle cruisers back to life.

Why those ships where so important?
I still remember my "young" days - i could loose 5 battle cruisers and close my total lose in 100mil ( insurance is nice on T1 ships)
Now new people (also to eve ) that i get to a corp are opening eyes when looking on base ships people are flying.
Months of training for entry level , and at least 1.5bil to get basic hull set.

TL;DR
- CCP don't boost way people can make isk but focus of reducing entry cost level for current doctrine meta
- CCP EVE is not ISK/Plex per hour , but doctrine SHIPS per hour.
- Bring back battle cruisers (hard , as they are to easy target for T3 destroyers, interceptors)
- Older players can manage current ship cost , and have skills , but your actions lead that new players will not have any of it fast enough to enjoy this game

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#2 - 2015-07-20 09:46:18 UTC
So you want CCP to moderate ship prices?

Or you want CCP to make T1 BC not suck?

Or you want CCP to make T3 Destroyers and Interceptors suck more?

Or you want what?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Anthar Thebess
#3 - 2015-07-20 09:57:14 UTC
This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish.
My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams.

Sorry but logistic ships don't count.
If they where so fun to fly , we would have problem in finding DPS people.

New people need to have fun, they need to learn a lot , but if we want to keep them in game they need FUN.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#4 - 2015-07-20 10:06:49 UTC
This answer will not be about high PLEX prices. What?
Guide Dragon
Liberation.
#5 - 2015-07-20 10:09:18 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish.
My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams.


It takes less than that for new players to train into a cheap t1 tackle frigate, which are great fun to fly and alot of corps will just hand these out for free.

a t1 cruiser fit wouldn't take longer than 2 weeks either


Anthar Thebess
#6 - 2015-07-20 10:11:33 UTC
Guide Dragon wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish.
My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams.


It takes less than that for new players to train into a cheap t1 tackle frigate, which are great fun to fly and alot of corps will just hand these out for free.

a t1 cruiser fit wouldn't take longer than 2 weeks either




You know how long T1 frigate live on a battlefield, with all those T3 destroyers and interceptors on field?

T1 cruiser?
People are flying in T3 and T2 ships.
Primary or/and kick from fleet.
Guide Dragon
Liberation.
#7 - 2015-07-20 10:16:12 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Guide Dragon wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish.
My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams.


It takes less than that for new players to train into a cheap t1 tackle frigate, which are great fun to fly and alot of corps will just hand these out for free.

a t1 cruiser fit wouldn't take longer than 2 weeks either




You know how long T1 frigate live on a battlefield, with all those T3 destroyers and interceptors on field?

T1 cruiser?
People are flying in T3 and T2 ships.
Primary or/and kick from fleet.


I lasted longer than some of the bigger ships, long enough to have fun and learn.
If you're in a corp that won't let you fly a t1 variant in the fleet and that bothers you, then join a corp that does?

I think you're missing the point of the t2 and t3 ships, they're supposed to take a while to train into and buy.
You wouldnt jump into any other MMO and expect to use all the highest level shiny gear at lvl 1.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-07-20 10:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
ccp doesnt control the market and they never should start, srp is a thing for most alliances, free tackle frigs for new players are also a thing, doent really cost much to do pvp with established alliances.

you know the business model is so ccp can actually make some cash from the game, making pve a grind so people who dont want to grind will spend on plex, make everything cheaper and people will be less inclined to buy plex for rl cash, still you get the solo carebears that only care about max isk, they dont actually spend any isk but they care so much about having more its nothing more than greed, this will never change, this idea is nothing more than to make people richer.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-07-20 10:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
CCP might believe giving them more ways to make isk will make the space worth living, but it won't. People afk in ishtars, which means CCP promotes their afk gameplay. What CCP is missing is that these people do not WANT to live in that space.

I agree with too much isk being made too easy in general. Everyone who whines about how expensive everything is, is probably a part of the greed problem. Too many only care about money and having it as easy as possible. If that's the target dience, combined with the reddit filth, then this game is lost already.

Goons are renting away their space, btw. Now wonder why! Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Falken Falcon
#10 - 2015-07-20 10:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Falken Falcon
Anthar Thebess wrote:
You know how long T1 frigate live on a battlefield, with all those T3 destroyers and interceptors on field?
T1 tackle frigs will last almost as long as a ceptor if you don't take the pilots skills in consideration.
Edit2: *Pilots flying skills/experience

Anthar Thebess wrote:
T1 cruiser?
People are flying in T3 and T2 ships.
Primary or/and kick from fleet.
T1 cruisers are cheap, not obsolete. If you think that the T1 cruiser is gonna be primary, just ask the logi fc to watchlist him. I've flown plenty of yolo caracals in a tengu fleets and survived without major issues, i've even flown drakes (Because fc said yes) in those and survived.

Edit: If you are kick'd from fleet because you wanna fly something cheap and/or stupid, you are flying with the wrong crowd.

Aye, Sea Turtles

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-07-20 10:27:20 UTC
Falken Falcon wrote:
Edit: If you are kick'd from fleet because you wanna fly something cheap and/or stupid, you are flying with the wrong crowd.


not really, "stupid" turning up to a armour cruiser fleet in a caracal is probably going to get you booted from most organised fleets

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-07-20 10:29:38 UTC
But you can do that already. Training into a Caracal, Rupture, Ferox, Harpy or Hawk does not take longer than training into a Drake did way back when, and those are the fleet doctrines I saw yesterday, used by different Nullsec Alliances. Yes, the occasional T3 or HAC doctrine pops up. But so did the occasional battleship doctrine back in the days of the Drake blob. And even if your newbie can't fly a Caracal, Rupture, Ferox, Hawk or Harpy yet, he will still be able to fly with the fleet and wreck stuff in a T1 frigate, provided the corp or alliance is not just a bunch of Skillpoint Supremacists.

Outside of the Nullsec Blobs, T1 cruisers and frigates are more popular than T1 Battlecruisers ever were, as are T3 Destroyers which don't take particularly long to train into either (and dirt cheap). Yes, some "elite PvP" groups fly mostly pimped T3s, faction battleships and triage carriers, but they are not the majority by far, and they earned the ability to fly whatever they are flying as did everyone else.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-07-20 10:31:49 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish.
My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams.

Sorry but logistic ships don't count.
If they where so fun to fly , we would have problem in finding DPS people.

New people need to have fun, they need to learn a lot , but if we want to keep them in game they need FUN.

No, they son't. This target audience only cares about fun itself. Do you even know this game? The fun crowd is the same crowd constantky farming isk, constantly only logging in for pings and constantly whining on the forums about how hard the game is.

No, this game should not bring more fun, but more DEPTH!!

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Falken Falcon
#14 - 2015-07-20 10:36:52 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Falken Falcon wrote:
Edit: If you are kick'd from fleet because you wanna fly something cheap and/or stupid, you are flying with the wrong crowd.


not really, "stupid" turning up to a armour cruiser fleet in a caracal is probably going to get you booted from most organised fleets
What i mean by stupid is like more of the lines like a nano tackle drake.
Coming to a shield fleet with a armor ship (That is other than a ceptor) i consider ******** rather than stupid Big smile

Aye, Sea Turtles

Jenshae Chiroptera
#15 - 2015-07-20 11:36:01 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
... You know how long T1 frigate live on a battlefield, with all those T3 destroyers and interceptors on field? ...
Joys of power creep and the effect it has on newbies. Yay.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#16 - 2015-07-20 11:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
T1 frigates have never lasted more than seconds in a fight. Ships that pop at the sight of a couple of flights of drones or if a cruiser hulll sneezes on them aren't exactly survivable.

Saying that every thing is because Power creep because that is the buzzword that is trending right now even when it's blatantly not true is super annoying.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#17 - 2015-07-20 12:01:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
T1 frigates have never lasted more than seconds in a fight. Ships that pop at the sight of a couple of flights of drones or if a cruoser hulll sneezes on them aren't exactly survivable. Saying that every thing is because Power creep because that is the buzzword that is trending right now even when it's blatantly not true is super annoying.
Drones did not always have damage mods.

From cruisers.

To cruiser, drones, destroyers and interceptors

LolLolLol Clear case of power creep!LolLolLol

I remember the days when T1 frigate swarms could actually go out and do something, much like interceptor and T3 destroyer fleets do now.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2015-07-20 12:04:30 UTC
Guide Dragon wrote:
You wouldnt jump into any other MMO and expect to use all the highest level shiny gear at lvl 1.

Sadly, some people realy do expect that. Ugh
Anthar Thebess
#19 - 2015-07-20 13:39:42 UTC
It is not about using best stuff - nerfs to one hulls, changes and boost to other driven hull meta to much.
We are constantly moving it higher and higher - this hurts new players the most, and put to big pressure on their wallets.

T2 HAC and fitting close now around 260mil - when i started to play this game for 260mil i could die in 20 battle cruisers in the same price tag.
When i tell this to new recruits i always hear "dam this game was fun then"

This topic is to remind to CCP that eve is not about farming , but about flying , killing and dying when the odds are bad.
Each time there is significant boost to not T1 hull , this game is becoming more and more expensive for new players.



Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-07-20 14:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
Tech 1 Cruisers are crazy powerful right now. Pick one ship of the following list: Mallers, Caracals, Moas, Vexor, Thorax. If you cannot make a strong fleet with those ships the problem is with the FC and the gang members, not the ship. I think a bigger issue is no minmatar ships qualify for that list. These ships run about 25-30 million with insurance value around 10 million.

Want to up the ante and get a faction cruiser (~60 million). Vexor Navy, Augoror Navy, Omen Navy, Scythe Fleet are all extremely powerful ships in their own right, totally capable of competing with many T2 ships, and with a numeric advantage more than able for fending off T3's.

Support Cruisers: All T1 logi are -great- Most T1 ewar ships are great, though I'd give special mention to the Arby and the Gallente one. These are super cheap since they have few Tech 2 components and can often be fit as low at 15-20 million. If a nullbro needs ISK he can make that in an hour salvaging behind his dual boxing buddy.


Edit: yes prices have risen but it's much easier for a newbro to get isk. Within 3 months you can be doing incursions, one of the highest Income generators in the game. There are tons of groups that will suport new bros. WH Salvaging, Null Anom salvaging, to say the least. I've also seen newbros in low-end ships brought into 4/10+ DED complexes and given a share of the loot. Furthermore, with the rise in prices, things like mining, DED farming, selling loot, etc is ALSO worth more. Beyond there, is a wealth of information on how to fit ships and optimize mission times, so you can get into serious income generatino earlier, along with skill plans and high PLEX prices to allow a newbro to instantly get billions of isk for only 30 USD.
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