Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Could different asteroids types also create explosions or damaing gas clouds as the Mercoxit currently does. This asteroids would contain better ores or better density ore or less rock. Also this asteroids could spawn rare ores from null to hisec (or maybe not). This would make it more important to watch out for instability. This is also the reason why instability of the asteroid should grow when mined and lower when left to cool down.

as usual. just ideas to talk about.

I'd rather not, this wouldn't be much fun at all. Think of mining mixed with loot can spew, add in the fact that in a busy belt the number of asteroids would potentially start producing TiDi too and it really isn't pleasant.

Also for the extra effort required there would need to be more reward which goes against your idea that miners could do their thing as usual elsewhere without their isk/hour being affected.

1. You don't mine, so why do you think you have ground to speak. No understanding, no experience, but wants it to change.

That's not how it works. One doesn't not do something and then claim he knows how to change it.

2. Mining is deliberately made how it is, so people can do it afk. I mine with three covetors, not afk, it's busy enough. There is no more interactivity needed and most people will reject it. Mining is an activity people cqn pursue when they have/want to do other things. It keeps people logged in.

Changing that would be bad for the game.


And besides that, ideas from someone who even admits he's clueless are trash from the getgo, because you have no idea wtf you are talking about. Go mine for a momth, then we talk. Then you still know barely anything, but at least you're not COMPLETELY clueless about it!

The raw ares instead of direct minerals was there exactly for the reprocessin part. Currently if you want maximum amount of Isogen, you mine Omber and use best possible reprocessing skills to get best amount of Isogen.

So instead of getting 100 m3 Omber, you would get 41 m3 raw Tritanium, 17 m3 Raw Pyeriteand 42 m3 Raw Isogen. This should provide you the same result. And these results could be changed with crystals and of course small random variation by asteroid.


Point is, it could work. Any case, lets look into this later on.

You completely missed his point, I think. He wasn't pointing out differences in results, but that the skill points he and others have put into his character now become a sunk cost--i.e. an unrecoverable expense. That is a huge hit if you've put say 6 million SP in refining skills and now they are useless. If we say those SP have a market value of 200 ISK/SP we are talking 1.2 billion ISK.

Also, it creates a problem in terms of null logistics too since, IIRC, the idea is to mine the ore, compress the ore, move the compressed ore. I don't think you can compress tritanium, isogen, etc. So moving low ends out to null will become a problem too.

First, this isn't loot spew. I've addressed the point previously, so please go read up on the differences.

Second, I don't expect this to cause TiDi. TiDi is caused when the required number of updates exceeds the node's ability to process them in less than one second for all systems on the node. For large fleet battles, this is the hundreds of players in both the system the battle is going on and Jita (it's permanently on the high traffic node). Further, what really stresses the server is people undocking, exploding, or jumping into system, as this forces the server to query for and apply all of the character's relevant skills to the hull (go look up "Brain in a Box" if you don't believe me). Since this won't add much work to the process of updating asteroids - certainly not the same level as a ship getting destroyed - and because miners will be removing asteroids from the grid TiDi is highly unlikely to occur just due to asteroid numbers.



I said comparable. We'll have to amortize the amount with all the people still out there solo mining and/or afk mining, who will be making less than those working in fleets. Further, the reward doesn't need to be financial. The reward could be needing to spend less time in the belt to achieve the same result as before.



Honest question: How do these proposed changes interfere with your ability to do all of that? Do you see it curbing the social aspect or some such?



I don't think the game can get rid of static belts - new players need some place to mine and belt rat. Still, using some sort of survey probes to scan down mining signatures sounds like a good idea to me.



This does not logically follow. A good idea can come from anyone. Understanding if it is a good idea or not requires expertise in order to point out logical strengths and weaknesses, but the idea can not be dismissed just because of who put it forward.

Ok re-read the OP.

1.) renaming the rocks maybe not a bad idea, but only to redistribute the mineral content not ore type.
A.) according to lore mining lasers vaporize asteroids into particle dust from which the current ore types is extracted only (if there is waste rock, it never makes it to the ore holds).
B.) Maybe then mineral distribution could be more evenly created, example pyroxeres currently only give up like 5 nocxium, maybe in highsec some rocks could give up like 5 megacyte or zydrine while in nullsec they actually have denser types that obviously give up more per refine batch.

2.) As an FC and Corp leader, I can do the job of scaning rocks myself if people negelect to fit scanners.
I will not pay someone to just fly around scanning rocks, so yeah you can do the job but your not getting paid because you are not being beneficial to overall income abilities. Not to mention such a scout would be a liability and a gank magnet for simply griefing fleets using them.

3.) Ability to tractor rocks.........again I will not pay a noctis or destroyer team for this job. I can put a tractor beam on an Orca and do the job myself along side of scanning rocks. Sure you can do the job, but you wont get paid by me since i can do it much more efficiently without hurting the fleets time efficiency mining.

4.) busting up rocks with by just removing the waste rock. why?
You are not adding to the income gain of the fleet, you need to be bringing in minerals, if you are not doing that you dont get paid.....period. Doing this as a fleet role means you are useless to me.

5.) Hauling.....in a large enough fleet i can also multibox my own hauler between station and Orca, if the size is larger....then its a Freighter in the belt with the Orca.
a.) to maintain control of the rocks themselves
b.) Ensuring the corp has its quota instead of relying on late contracts or whatever like someone suddenly having to log out.
c.) To make sure all accoounting is correct to do payroll for those that are actually participating.

And Im pointing these out from a highsec perspective......
What else?
Ah yes.....the breaking up of rocks....all it does is simply make a mess of things and causes more work to be done "work" instead of simply enjoying what we do. Thats a no-go. It will increase time in the belt, which means less efficiency, less pay, and worse less amount of materials collected in an allotted Fleet time, meaning less ability to build stuff.

Choices? An individual may be choosing like now as they alreay do what rock type to mine and in what order becasue of amount of time able to play. A Fleet however does not, it goess out and STRIPS the belt(s) in question....the only thing a real fleet needs to know is who is mining what, so they can bring appropiate crystals, who the backups are for that type if crystals for some reason run out or other reasons. Yet even a Fleet has time restrictions.....OP will last 6 hrs for example, again choice....mine the whole belt or cherry pick them one ata time?

Direct Deposit Scanner??? Is this meant to replace Mining Upgrades? becasue if not then i see no reason for its exsistence and if so....possible stats must be provided so it can be discussed.

Tractor Drones: redundant, already have tractor beams, not required, and should not be implented.....oh yeah we also have MTU's.

Bots: You seriously believe with the way some probably get scripted now a days that someone can not script to handle all the tasks your proposing? maybe they get easier to detect, but these things will not hinder them in the slightest.

Precision Mining Lasers: Less yield, but less rock.....how about no Rock at all or they are useless becasue of "Time Efficiency" which would be better to just strip everything and deal with it later. Oh yeah we are not doing waste rock because there is no place for its exsistence in EvE....taking up database storage for something that has no use, created by miners in exsistence.....uhm yeah thats a good one.

Mining Foreman Amiplifier thingy: Yeah already discussed that one, couldnt remember off the top of my head what it was that did that when i first mentioned it....a module already exists, are you trying to seperate the two abilities of that module so a Fleet Booster is forced to fill the limited slots already for such things? Do not need a secondary booster either....in a mining Fleet like i said already the FC is in control of the possesion of the rocks and is the pilot(s) of cap ships used, no one else...others should be mining.

Expedition: This ship is redundant between Orca/Rorqual and the miners themselves, a waste of database, materials to build, and not required.....besides you have not posted any exact ship stats yet anyway to discuss.

The only thing i have seen posted here so far: Is that I also believe ore anoms should require a scanner able to be fitted on mining or Mining Command ships only. Ore Anoms should be removed from the easy to find list of the probe scanner screen.

Other things i wouldnt mind: Removal of static belts maybe, and make smaller more condensed belts requirng to be scanned down. Allow something like a mini claim structure to be placed in each a corp wishes to lay claim to. Expire at DT. that way corps can claim one of these smaller belts or numbers of them, anybody not in corp mining them goes flashy yellow.

Comet mining

and maybe make moon mining an active thing, so maybe even highsec can produce their own moon goo. just make the deposits/belts much smaller than nullsec's and make losec's in between sized.

All other things remaining the same, yes. However that need not be the case. Ships and modules can be rebalanced around having a more involved system. I previously described adjustments that could be made to compensate miners for the additional work with a reduced amount of time needed in belt to hit a fixed ore volume.



If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that a highsec mining fleet might start with the most valuable ores first, but will eventually just strip the whole belt if left long enough? You don't even skip Veldspar in favor of hitting a different belt in the same system?



This is an early concept idea. Slapping full stats on it would be premature. The general idea, however, is not to replace mining upgrades but to create a mid-slot module that would reduce the amount of waste rock being pulled from a targeted asteroid on every mining cycle. Maybe everyone in the fleet fits one and uses it on whatever they are mining. Maybe everyone mines from the same asteroid while the Orca is scanning the rock for you.



This depends on the differences between drone ranges and tractor beams. A Noctis tops out at 60 KM tractor beams. Drones can get up to 60km control range with just 2 skills. Add a Drone Link Augmentor and you've got the Noctis beat and can use the drones as fire-and-forget tractor beams.

Yeah, the MTU does put a damper on the use of Tractor Beams. Everything you want to tractor is already handled by a single deployable.



I work as a programmer. I know that, given enough time and effort, I could script my way around these changes. However, effort is hard and adaptation to change isn't always easy. If they get easier to detect or fail to be as efficient as a human brain, the real players win.

Fleet mining is already very interactive. if you don't mine, keep playing with whatever bodypart you gewns play, and screw off from the mining please.

-1.

A.) more or less that how it works, but the average player does not see it like that because they dont care about lore. What they see and do is how its working right now and there is no need to change that.
B.) Not exactly, think it was 3...but lets say yeah every current rock type gets turned into these 3 named rock types in your proposal. Well, i guess only lets say a Crystalized what ever can be found in nullsec and no where else, it would maybe refine 100 or 400 megacyte or zydrine....where the normal type might be not be in highsec but yields 50% of that amount when refined.....and i guess the porous idea of yours...wellit would have the lowest yield but at least even in highsec that yield will make highsec miners at least 3-5% less reliant on nullsec ores.....they just have to mine more in time and volume.
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1.) A fleet using an orca, relys on the barges/exhumers for scouting a the next belt for the best warp in point for the fleet where they can reach most if not the entire belt fom rng boosts in the first swipe.
2.) Again the miners are the ones doing the proper scanning anyway. so no such a scout is useless because his information will be outdated or irrelevant until the fleet is or almost is ready to land on grid.

Now as to liability, if as your trying to say you are attempting to make it impossible to not have to use these scouts....then yes even I as an Indy group would have my own gank alts destroy these scouts to greif competitors or those not yet selling their ores to me. On general note....CODE or the likes will see these scouts used more often and be able to pin point exactly who and where decent fleets are running as Actual fleets even if they are NPC charactrs balled together. No matter how you look at it, these scouts are useless and a liability to fleet security.

Uhm no, Orcas dont fit Capital Tractor Beams.....and yes as the rocks would break apart the orca would just lock onto the pieces not being mined and tractor them close to it since the fleet is hovering close to the orca. The miners would just keep mining what ever else was out there eventually mining the rocks collected closer to the orca. Like i said no need for a noctis to be out there which 2 Cats could easily murder at a glance.


Ok where did you get these numbers?
If you are talking about just Veldspar....2000 units is 200 m3, that is like 5 seconds or less of cycle time
8000 units of rock....no mater how much you want this involved it can be no more then veldspar ore or less in m3 so about 800 m3.

So uhm yeah, 5 cycles? you are out of your mind if you think people wont rage quit/riot at this unless like i said your goal is to literally make more work and longer times in the belt and therefore cut down all mining efficiency by 50% or more.

1,000 m3....thats like maybe a 3rd of most cycles on a strip miner, so no the proposal on the mining crystals your trying to invent or the process changes is of negative merit.