Ships & Modules

Greetings Folks, I'm posting another thread because I could no longer ignore an aggravating fact that I've noticed about armor tanking, specifically for Marauders. The Advantages that active shield tanking Marauders have over the armor tankers is mind numbing.


First: They have access to a great active shield tanking boost implant set called Crystals. I know the armor tankers have access to Slaves, but Slaves only gives boost to raw armor HP amount which only benefits armor buffer tankers backed with logic support. This greatly devalues their usefulness for the Paladin and Kronos which cannot receive external boost of any kind while in bastion mode.

Second: Shield boosters of all sizes boosts every 4 seconds and boosts are received at the beginning of each of these cycles as oppose to armor reppers that reps every (with armor repair V) 11 seconds for large, 7.2 seconds for mediums and 4.5 seconds for small (the only one that can compete with shield boosting). On top of that the armor reps are received at the end of each of these cycles as opposed to the beginning of each cycles with shield boosters. This means that a Paladin would need 3 large armor reppers to have comparable active tanking ability as a XL shield boosted Golem. Adding to this problem is the huge Pwg fitting requirements for large armor repairers which are around 2000 vs only 550 for a XL shield booster. I know that shield boosters takes a lot more CPU to fit, but the point is that large armor reppers Pwg requirements are way too much for the tank they're able to provide currently.

Third: Shield boosters have a nice module called SBA II which gives a 36% shield boost amount that cost only about 2 mill isk as compared to a Nano Pump II & Nano Accelerator II that gives a meager 20% to armor rep amount and cycle time that cost a whopping 125 mill isk.

Fourth: Shield boosters can use ASBs (even with multiple fittings) that require NO CAP, but for some strange reason the armor ancillary repairers takes up the same cap as a regular ship sized repairer AND you can only fit ONE of them, seriously? Yes I know that it takes nano paste instead of cap boosters that doesn't take up that much cargo space and that when loaded with nano paste that the AARs reps 3x as much, but it still can't compare with the capless dual XL asb fits that I've seen on Sleipnirs and Vargurs.

Proposal: I have several proposals that would help bridge the huge gap that shield tanking Marauders have over armor tanking marauders. Any one of these changes would be a start but preferably I'd hope for at least two of these proposals implemented.

First Proposal: Create a new low slot module that increase armor rep amount by 50%. This will free up cap and also much needed Pwg using only one large repairer and to finally be able to fit something in those empty high slots like Nos/Nuets or large smartbombs.

Second Proposal: Introduce another skill for the Armror Tanking Skill Tree called Advanced Armor Repairer with a 2x training multiplier that provides additional 5% increase to armor repairer cycle time per skill level.

Third Proposal: Replace a high slot for an additional low slot on the Paladin and Kronos. With the high Pwg requirements for dual large armor repairers there's often no Pwg left to fit anything useful in one of those empty high slots.

Fourth Proposal: Since only one AAR can be fitted on a ship I propose to Increase the charges per hold on the AAR from 8 to 13 (ala the original XL ASB charge capacity). And also since the cost of nano paste has skyrocketed in price once these modules came out, they should reduce the nano consumption per rep cycle from 8 to 4 for large AARs, and from 4 to 2 for medium AARs.

Well these are my thoughts on this topic. Any thoughts, suggestions, or improvements are welcome. But please keep it civil people, I'm very delicate.

why, you afraid Paladins and Kronoses would be able to perma-tank your little gang of bee stingers?

Well I am an armor boy, lets start with that.

But all suggested changes would effect all ships not just the 2 Marauders, so they can't be done.

Hyp, Deimos, Incursus, Confessor, Hecate, Myrm and a few more are already insanely good at what they do. All these changes would make these ships extremely OP

That said why care about Marauders anyways? They're made to do lvl 4s really well and they already do that, the armor ones can easily keep up with them as well usually with higher DPS fits than the shield ones.

Unless you wanna play station games the Marauder is useless in PVP. Oh no how am I gonna get away from the ships that can't move?! Oh right fly away, silly me.

Plus many more things factor in, fancy EANMs are much cheaper than fancy invuls. Getting the same performance costs more on a shield boat.

Armor boats have a (much) better buffer even without slaves. (which is why I like them)

Etc etc, since I've played this game (since 2010) I dont think the balance between armor and shield has been this good. Just because 2 armor Marauders have lesser ability to do something they are not supposed to do (PVP) isn't really an excuse to go f*ck the whole game up.

This would be the issue. Most of the ideas presented are all armour ships mods. The only marauder specific one is the slot changes really.


Also will admit to having a morbid curiosity to the fits they are deeming as inadequate really. May we see what you think is lacking fit wise OP?

And what they failed in and how. Since its marauders will assume pve....so I'd be guessing poor rat management and too many triggers hit. Or just fit for the wrong task. OP I know its heresy to some but sometimes assumed tank by gank does not always work well all the time and a 3 slot tank common for these tank by gank fit needs to go say 4 or more with moar resists. Sometimes you can't knock em down fast enough and need to beef up the actual real tank.


This even on marauders. I know many who go minimal tank riding (too) heavily on the bastion resist boost. Great plan I guess. Just has that small flaw of what happens, you know, when you are not in bastion. Or dc'd.

1. Buffer is still useful on an active tanked ship. Less chance to bleed structure between reps. Or overboosting. I know pvp hyperions use slaves to help extend buffer so reps are better able to catch. Fly an XLASB vaga with an LSE and then without. Youll see why its nice to have some extra buffer.

2. Armor reps give more HP than shield boosters do. Hence the added time to cycle. Repping at the end isnt a big deal. Just start the cycle at low shield, and itll hit right as you take armor damage. This keeps shield/armor tanks from feeling the same. The PG requirements are what balance armor tanks. Same as high CPU for shield. Dont disregard that as a non issue. Most dual XLASB fits need cpu mods or pimp fittings to work.

3. I wish shields had a rig to increase shield boost that uses 0 cpu. SBA's use a lot of CPU in most cases. More or equal to an invuln. Where are you getting 125m? No one is forcing you to use t2 large rigs. Make your own if youre so concerned about cost. Standard rigs are around 10m.

4. AAR still rep after paste is gone. ASB do not. Unless you have boatloads of cap. This means they can still contribute to tanking, even when out of charges. Albeit at a reduced rate. But something is better than nothing. If ASB tanks are overwhelmed, they die.

This is what makes armor and shield tanks different. Making them similar is boring and takes away from the game and the rock, paper, scissors strategy EVE relies on.

Actually I stated that only one of these ideas would suffice, not all of them at once. And I have no intentions of doing something like PVP in these expensive ships. My NMs do lev 4s just fine, why would I need a Marauder for those? My intentions was to do C4 Whs in them and the changes was to help their survival changes when they get jumped on.

The best response by far and you seem like you really know what you're talking about, Thank you Mr Kaneland. The reason for my propose changes was because currently I see no way for a Paladin/Kronos to survive if they get jumped on in a WH. One of the main reasons for their vulnerability is Bastion Mode that is a double edge sword for Marauders when venturing in hostile territory. I watch tons of videos, and went back to play with Pfya to try and figure out a counter fit that would increase their survival chances against the gankers when they come. The conclusion lead to this proposal because in their current state, the Marauders will perish (especially the armor tankers).

Hey, if you can't do level 4's in a Paladin, it's your useless skills and piloting, not the ship.

I do L4's in my Vargur using a T2 fit and a Dred Guristas Large Shield Booster. If you can't do them with a dual rep Paladin with AAR, you are the one with the cruddy skills.

You must be drunk, No where in this thread did I say or even hinted that I can't do level 4's in a Paladin. And my skills are top notch for my age thank you. Furthermore I don't even need a Paladin for level 4's when my NM rocks them back in forth all day long without breaking a sweat.

Simpler solution:

Bastion provides boost to active tanking. Rebalance the shield and armor rep stats so the shield rep bonus is nerfed by 20%.